Pat and Gordon Benning

 

Tyler Bush(TB): My name is Tyler Bush, and today I'm interviewing Patricia and Gordon Benning, who spent time in Danville in the sixties. In the seventies. And I'm here with Jackson Banks, Blake Stewart, Carter Bachman and Harrison Acres. And today is January 24th, 2023. And we are recording this interview in the Boyle County and Danville African-American Historical Society. And today we will be discussing Patricia and Gordon's experiences within Danville during the sixties and seventies.

0:25

Blake Stewart (BS): First of all, thanks for taking your time to be with us today. We appreciate it a lot. Can we start off the interview with just you all telling us where did you grow up and how your experiences were?

0:39

Patricia Benning (PB): All right. My name is Patricia Benning. Danville, Kentucky is my home. I was born there in 1947, and I stayed in Danville until I finished high school at Danville High. After that, I left Danville and moved to Louisville, Kentucky. And now I currently live on the outskirts of West Chester, Ohio.

1:11

BS: Mr. Benning, can you also do the same thing? Please introduce yourself and where you grew up.

1:27

Gordon Benning (GB): Yes, I'm Gordon Benning, Sr. I grew up in Hazard, Kentucky and went to Centre in 1966 as a freshman and graduated in 1970.

1:32

Jaxson Banks: And Mrs. Bennett, you mentioned that you graduated from Danville High School. We're under the impression that you were part of the whole integration process and if you could just go in a little bit of detail about how that all went down.

2:00

PB: Okay. I left Bate school in 1964. I was in my junior year and integration was coming, so I wanted to go to Danville High. One year before my senior year, just to see how it would be and to make sure that I had all the credits and everything that I needed so I could graduate on time. They had a different curriculum that we than we did at Bate School. So I wanted to make sure that I had everything that I needed so I would be able to graduate on time.

2:36

JB: And Mr. Benning if you don't mind, talk about your high school experience prior to college?

2:44

GB: Yeah, I like I said earlier, I graduated from Hazard High School, played football there and ran track. And concentrated a lot on my academics because I wanted to be able to college with that.

3:00

Carter Baughman: Mr. and Mrs. Benning can either one of you all share one of your fondest memories of Danville? Maybe whether it be in high school or college, and maybe where you were, when was it or what you were doing.

3:17

PB: Okay, I'll start first. Well, like I said, Danville, Kentucky is my home. My earliest memories were probably in the year 1952, 53. Prior to going to Bate School for my first year, I had friends in the neighborhood that I played with. We pretty much stayed in our own neighborhood. I lived on the north side of town and Danville being so small, we didn't have a lot of activities around in the community, so we pretty much just visited back and forth with one another and enjoyed things that we did right there in our own neighborhood at that time. A little bit after I had been in school, Danville Bate will be decided to have a playground, and we went there in the summertime for activities. We played on baseball teams, just did the normal things that you do at a playground in the summertime. We also took trips with the playground. We traveled to communities like Lexington, Kentucky, Stanford, Harrodsburg, and participated in some activities that they had going on in their city wasn't allowed to do back in Danville during that time. But that's basically how I spent my summer. (laughs)

5:08

CB: Thank you for sharing, Mr. Benning. Do you have anything you like to add about one of your fondest memories of Danville?

5:13

GB: Uh, probably some of greatest, fondest memory was meeting Pat and starting dating her. You know, I enjoyed my classes and all that stuff. Uh, enjoyed playing football there. So Danville, was all right with me. Different from Hazard as it. I don't know if you ever heard of it, but it was a more lively place. You know, my thought was, hey, I'm here to get an education. That's what I'm gonna do. So that's the way I worked with it.

5:57

TB: So don't mind me asking, how did you guys meet?

6:03

PB: Okay. I had a high school friend that was dating a young man that was attending Center College, and she asked me if I would go on a date with her friend's friend. I think it was in the spring of 1960. . . 67, probably. You'll have to you have to excuse me. Some of these years I have to think about because Gordon and I both are in our seventies. So we're having to pull, have to think a minute about what happened between then and now. So if we have a little pause there. Please excuse that. We just have to go back to our memory bank and pull out some of that information. But anyway, I said yes to Cheryl. What's her name? Cheryl Blake. And she was dating a young man by the name of John Mason. And he was he was attending Centre also. So they were having a spring dance. And at that time, there were not a lot of Black females on the campus, I understand. So when the young men needed a date, or wanted just to go out for the weekend to have fun. They often, would ask some of the young ladies that lived right there in Danville. So, um, that's how I met Gordon.

7:32

GB: It was a blind date.

7:36

PB: It was a blind date. It was it was a fun date. And we've been together since that. And we got married in 70 and we've been married now for 52 years. I also always enjoyed the sport of football. And so since Gordon was a football player, um, I found him a lot more interesting because of that. And like I said, we stayed. . . he finished his last two years at Centre and I was working there in my hometown. I was teaching at an elementary school, a Catholic school there in Danville. And after that, we got married and moved to Louisville, Kentucky.

8:18

CB: Mr. Benning you mentioned you played football. What position did you play here at Centre College?

8:25

GB: I played my main position was middle linebacker. I also was a snapper sometimes for the extra point field goal. And it was it was great. We had a good team. We did well, uh, just a little bit. My freshman year. We were number five in the country in all divisions and percentage that nine games,

I think we gave up about 1300 yards and 40 something rushing and 80 something passing. It was fun. We went seven and two and that was better than they had going.

9:00

CB: Mr. Benning, if you don't care to share your experience both as a Centre student, but also the dynamic here on campus and your football team, what the dynamic was like with both of those.

9:13

GB: Okay, on campus. When I got there, we had a big incoming class. There were four Blacks two males and two females at the time so more Blacks than were already there. And you know, we all had fun. We enjoyed ourselves. We enjoyed the other students liked it as well. Yeah. And playing football, there were only two Blacks on the team. So and some of the people we knew, one guy I had actually played against in high school. So that wasn't a big problem, you got out there and played ball. Yeah, we did what we needed to do.

9:56

PB: and a little more to the subject. Mind you, I grew up in Danville, knew about Centre for all those years, but prior to meeting Gordon, we didn't spend any time around this Centre campus. So actually when I met Gordon, I got to learn more about the campus and the school and also just find a little bit about what Centre was like, what Centre was like you know, so like I said, it was not off limits to us, but we really didn't have any reason to go to the campus very often. And mind you, prior to Gordon coming, there was just one young man that was there a year before you (confirms with Mr. Benning) So there were two Black males at Centre before my husband came. So they didn't have very many Black students at all prior to Gordon attending.

11:08

BS: Mr. Benning, how was your interaction with the Black community in Danville?

11:20

GB: That for me?

BS: Yes, sir.

GB: Oh, okay. I know a lot of people in in the Black community in Danville. I went to the barbershop there and got my hair cut. Uh, it was a White guy named David Blake who was from the area. He came the year after I came. So that was. That was okay. Um, but, yeah, like, I stated earlier. Oh, I think we all understood the reason we were at Centre was to get an education. I considered it paying dues so that when I got out of there, I would be prepared to do what I wanted to do.

12:00

Harrison Akers (HA): Mr. Benning, when you were at Centre, did you ever spend any time on Second Street?

12:10

GB: Second Street. Uh, I think, other than getting my haircut that was it. I didn't hang out anywhere. I wasn't aware of any places, really, to hang out in.

12:22

TB: What about you Mrs. Benning? Do you have any experiences you'd like to share about Second Street growing up.

12:32

PB: Well, I know you all have probably heard a lot about Second Street and how it's changed. And, of course, everything changes over time. But for the residents of Danville, I think that it was it was shocking to them because, as you know, back in the fifties and years before that, Blacks didn't have the opportunity to frequent White restaurants in any town in Kentucky and probably throughout the United States. Restaurants, movie theaters, we just didn't have the freedom to go and enjoy ourselves prior to integration. So for us, Second Street was a place that we could go and feel at home, feel comfortable. There were a few Black restaurants on Second Street. There was the barbershop on Second Street. There was the pool hall on Second Street. So on the weekends, that's where Blacks spent their time, you know, just for a little entertainment, just to go and have some fun like everybody else, you know. Also on the corner of Second and Walnut is the church that I attended at First Baptist Church, and it's still there on Second Street. So that was really disappointing to the Black residents of that community to have all of that taken away and to I think what I understand, I was just a teenager that they were promised that they would . . . I'm going to say, clean up that part of town, but not take everything away, give them money to have the opportunity to build back their businesses better, you know. And also, it would have stayed I mean, it remained a place where Blacks probably would go also. But I don't think that happened. Well, I know it didn't happen. And I think it really put a . . . what do I want to say. . .  It made the Blacks in that community feel like that they just didn't, they weren't appreciated and that they didn't need a place to go like the Whites, the White community have had. And, you know, it really changed things in Danville and it affected them in a in a bitter way, you know, and they are still harping on that today. They just can't believe that they came through that part of town and just took everything away, you know. So I understand now I'm thinking about maybe trying to do something about that. But that's such a long time ago. And I don't know if they can even really make that happen after all that time. After all this time. I just want to say that it was terrible, it was terrible times back then for Blacks. And of course, you all can't relate to it being the age that you are now. But it was it was really a bad time for the Blacks of that community.

16:11

HA: Miss Benning, can you talk a little bit more on your experiences at church here in Danville?

16:20

PB: Okay. Been going to church all my life. That was something that my parents and grandparents did. And of course, they took us and encouraged us to go. And a lot of times the activities that at the churches, at the Black churches, that was really all the entertainment that the Black communities had.

You know, they'd have, I don't know if you all have ever heard of church rallies and homecomings and things like that. They would put on fish fries, picnics. But the young people we did a vacation Bible school every summer and we went not only to our church, but we went to all the Black churches around Danville that had vacation Bible school. So that was another way that we could have some form of entertainment. And then my church every year took us on a trip to the Cincinnati Zoo, and we had a day in August that we went every year. So that provided some an outlet for the young Blacks and some entertainment for the Blacks. Um, you know, all kids need that. And so the church took it upon themselves to make sure that we had some form of entertainment. And the church that I attended also had a teenage club. And so once a week, I think probably during just the school years from what I mean, school ran from September to May. Oh we did that. So, so they made sure that we had some form of entertainment. I mean, they really cared about our well-being. So thanks to them, uh, we did have that opportunity to be able to get out and do something. We did not have a swimming pool. We did not have, um, public parks that we felt comfortable going to. And so, um, it was just a terrible time for young people, uh, during those times. And, uh, thank goodness for the churches and the people around the community making sure that we, we, we were introduced to other things. And, uh, and that was, that was good because had it not been for the churches, I don't know what we would have done. And I'll let Gordon speak to you on that subject, if he wants to, about what happened to him and his hometown.

19:06

GB: In our old hometown, you know, we yeah, it was a little bit different for us, for schools because when the, uh, integration became part of the law in 19- after especially the heads of high school immediately integrated, uh, I went to a one room, all Black school, seventh grade, and at, at the end of that year we learned. And so I went to a neighborhood school. I was my eighth grader at that point, and I was one of two Black eighth graders in the whole school So that that was a little different. But, you know, my mindset well, I'll tell you, I'm here to learn as much as I can, about as much as I can. So, I mean something I just I'll deal with it. And I did. I was trying to do the best I could academically and I did well. Oh, that's a part of growing up. It's a part of a mindset. And I don't know if you know any people from here.

20:22

PB: Let me speak to that issue again. When you're young and you see your White counterparts going to restaurants and the movie theater and the drugstores and being able to sit at the . . . What I want to say, the counters or the places where the counters where they serve ice cream and soft drinks and all that. And we couldn't do that. We had to go in and we literally had to stand at the end of the counter at most of the drug stores and restaurants. And if, say, a group of five or ten of us would leave Sunday school, this is what we did, leave Sunday school on Sundays, walk up to the nearest drugstore. I think back then it was called the Gem drugstore. We could enter the drugstore, but we could not go to the counter and get our ice cream and spread out and sit there and enjoy it for five or 10 minutes or whatever. We get that ice cream, pay for it and have to get out of that store immediately. That's the way they wanted it. They did not want us inside that store. We paid for it, mind you. But they did not want us in that store eating our snacks, get the ice cream, get the soft drink, whatever, and get out of there. And when I was in, I would say maybe ninth or 10th grade, I had an elementary school teacher decided to. . . we had a what do I want to call it. … called the organization that Blacks I can't even think of it right now. But she decided that she was going to take us to one of the drugstores -  NAACP. That's what I'm trying to say, that we have NAACP group in our church. So we decided we were going to have some sit ins. So we went to one of the local drugstores and we just went and sat at the counter and they could not believe that. And one of the waitresses at that drugstore and I can see her face just as vividly today, White woman said, "hurry up and serve them and get them out of here." And that was that was heart wrenching. And that's the kind of treatment we got all the time. And so I was speaking to your professor and saying to him, asking him, did he find Danville unique? Now, mind you, it has changed. But I think some of that still exists today. It's not nearly as bad as it was back in the fifties and sixties, but that's what we had to endure and that's what we suffered through. And we rarely if we talk to the owners of those restaurants, we just did what they said do and just got on out of there. And if you went to buy clothing at any of the shops around Danville, it was the same situation. They would take our money because they knew we had to have clothing, but they did not want us to try on the clothing. And so we just made sure that we got the correct size because they knew when we got home we were going to try them out. We were going to eventually work, put the clothes on and wear. But I mean, that was that was what we had to deal with. "We will take your money, your hard earned money, but we do not want you to enjoy the comforts of sitting here in the restaurant." "Or coming inside the dressing room and trying on the clothes that you needed to have." And there was also a restaurant near the Black school that we could stop at on the way home from school. But we had to enter through the back door. And the back door was just a little, the area was small. It was like closed in. And so when you went there in the wintertime, you were not standing outside, but you had to stand there in line and get your hamburger or your french fries or your soft drink and eat it going down the street.

I mean, and to me, if I had been one of those proprietors or owners of those restaurants. I could not have done that. I could not have done that. To see these young Black teenagers and adults, for that matter, come to my business, keep my business going. They're my bread and butter, so to speak, and then treat them like they treated us. And, you know, I don't know what you're the age you are. You young men are but your parents didn't suffer through that. So you all don't see all of that. You don't know all of that. And people don't talk about it much anymore. But those were terrible times. And some Blacks have been scarred by that for the rest of their lives. And as I talk to you about it, it doesn't stay with me every day. But as I think about it and talk to you all about it comes, it comes up. I mean, I feel the pain that we suffered through that. And I don't know if you can hear it in my voice or not, but it makes you want to tremble and shake and cry to know that we were put on this earth just like all other humans. And this is what we had to go through. And you all, I'm sure you didn't get a lot of this in history and in your high school or elementary school, but you've heard of those times. And sometimes I just want to ask you, what do you all think about it? What do you what do you think about it? I know you're asking me questions, but what do you all think about it?

27:01

JB: Well, I personally like you said, we're too young to completely understand the whole situation. So it's kind of what we know is, is what we learn in the history books and what I hear from sources like you all. But I just me personally, I've always admired how you mentioned you mentioned it earlier slightly, but it was how you were able to just like kind of take those threats and stuff and not even react to it. I I've always like in like that was always, I guess Martin Luther King's voice on it. He was big on peace. And for me personally, if I was going through that time, it would be pretty hard for me to like, you know, try to keep a level head on from being constantly disrespected and things like that. So if you don't mind, you know, because you go in a little bit of how how y'all were able to keep it peaceful and not just go out and erupt on this disrespect, I guess you could just call it.

28:05

PB: Well, this is what I have to say. I say the Black race had strong constitution. We were able to endure that and forgive and most of us try to not think about it. A lot of us don't like to talk about it, but if you sometimes you get caught in a moment, just like this moment that I met with you, now it it's it brings back things and thoughts, and it makes you just bitter, you know? Um, so I do have to say that we were a very strong race in order to be able to endure and withstand all of that, you know, and keep us keep a level head and, and just move on through life. I came down with Gordon how many years ago with the boys? Uh, about five years ago. And he did, he and I did this same kind of interview with the young lady at its Centre. She was getting ready to graduate. And, um, she the same questions. The same questions that you're asking me, basically. Uh, and it just it just it's unbelievable. And, um, like I always say, I just well, even with my high school class, I'll, I'll, I'll say this when I graduate. When I went to Danville High on my very first day at school, I went to the teacher's desk, and he assigned my seat, my homeroom seat. And there was a young lady, um, female, Caucasian, that I was assigned to sit behind. And in the row you had classrooms aligned, and she jumped up and left the room.

And I honestly, I feel bad for her that she had that kind of bitterness in her, that she just couldn't stand to sit beside me or behind in front of me. And of course, the instructor, the teacher went and got her and brought her back. But I didn't, uh, after it happened, you know, I forgave her right then and right there. I was so shattered that I couldn't go back to school the next day. And we just moved on through, you know, that the time that we spent at Danville High with those insults being thrown at us almost on a daily basis. And, um, but when I went back to my 50th high school class reunion, she was there. I'm not going to call her name. I think she lives in Danville. She was very apologetic. She didn't say it in so many words. Her actions made me know what she was saying. I went back to my ten-year reunion, high school reunion, and she actually said it then. So back then I was probably 28, I guess she was around 28 and she was she offered me to come and stay in her home. She knew that I had moved outside of Danville and she wanted to know if I had anywhere to stay, you know. And back then, of course, we were free to go and stay in the hotels and things like that. But my family was still there. So I said to her, I'll, yes, I'm fine. My mother still lives here. I have family members that live here if I don't want to stay in a hotel. But she offered me a place to stay in her home and she didn't have the nerve to say I'm sorry for what I did, but I knew where she was coming from. And then when I went back to my 50th class reunion, she wanted to make sure she took a picture of me and my husband with I think she and her husband. So in so many words, she said, I'm sorry for what I did, but by then I had forgiven her and I was surprised that she did it, but she did do it. So I guess what it all turns out to be, we don't have to feel bad because I think in a way people that did that to us should probably feel worse than we did that to receive the treatment was bad, but to be the one that gave it out to me, that's terrible. That's really terrible. And I don't know. Like, when I went to the interview with Gordon, I tried to suppress this, but sometimes you can't but you do just have to go on and live through it and move on. And we see now how much, um, um, how things have changed and turn around and, and things are better, but still not where they should be. And that's not only with, with Blacks We see it happening to Asians and Jewish people and you know, it's just the thing that just isn't that it will not go away. It just does not go away. And I don't know how that can ever be solved.

BS: What are you all's opinions on how school desegregation.

33:24

PB: I can't understand you. What did you say?

33:30

BS: How was your all's, how was your opinions on school desegregation, how it was handled in Danville at Bate High School and how it was handled at Centre College.

33:41

GB: I'll take the Centre part of it. Uh, you know, we do, uh, as many young Black folks that there were people there isn't a lot of us there. There were professors who didn't want us there. We knew it. We, you know, we understood. I know I understood, uh, growing up in Hazard that not everybody sees people the same way. Not everybody thinks the same thing about people. But what was really disappointing to me was, uh, this one professor who said to one of the, uh, the first, uh, three Black students who enrolled, you know, female who was absolutely brilliant. And she told me the last time I saw her probably seven, eight years ago, but she mentioned that this professor had said to them, the class on the first day of classes, uh, "Now not everybody in here can do this work. "And I will guarantee you and bet you every dollar I got, there was nobody anywhere near as gifted and as intellectually, uh, prepared to go to Centre than she was. And she just was really on top of everything. I had one professor who gave me a C actually, in botany, because he said I misspelled a word on the final. You know, my point always was you read my answer, you understood what it should be. This is not a spelling class. This is a concept class. I understood what the hell he was asking for. I gave the answers and that was that was all I needed to do. And I thought about it because I got my grades in the summer when I was not in school and I thought about, you know, how am I going to approach this guy? And by the time I got back, I just decided he's not worth it. But I know what I know. And, you know, he can put down anything he wants on paper. But like my father used to always tell us, you learn the things you can and than and you keep it in your mind. Nobody can get inside your head and take anything away. That was mine. You know, I'm I have a lot, a lot different attitude than a lot of people part of it was my upbringing. Part of it was growing up in Hazard, Kentucky. So Pat talked about going to the restaurants. Well, we had all restaurants and there were some we could go to and we didn't care whether we went to those or not. But I had a great uncle who had, you know, places for the teenagers to hang out, places you could go and eat and all that. I wasn't worried about that part. And, uh, you know, that's just that was just my attitude. That's my personal approach to it. I had that attitude with some of my professors, uh, I won't prolong this thing too much. But that one as, as who was my professor as a freshman in calculus, you know, I didn't have calculus in high school. The other people had in the class, it didn't take me long to catch up. And he used to give us homework. And what you had to do, was you had to state the problem, state your steps and state the answer what I would do. Just because he aggravated me - this is a little insight into my personality - about, you know, you could be mess up in second or third grade. I'm a freshman in college. I don't need to do that. I just need to understand what it is that we're talking about. So I would state the problem I mean, I would work the problem in my mind then I would put down the answer and then for steps I would just put "magic." And, you know, he would see me on campus after that and he just laughed like how is that fool still here. Yeah, well, as it turned out, I had him for statistics my senior year. I had grown up a little bit, so they called me over after the final. Handed me my paper and I had made 100 on it. He said, I just thought you might want it.  I said, why don't you keep it and show how much better of an instructor you were when I was a senior compared to when I was a freshman and walked out. But, you know, that's just the way it is. So you have to deal with people at the end of the day. People are people. Everybody has feelings. Everybody should have a sense of self-worth. And if you don't have it, you better get it. So this is a tough world and you have to have to live it that way. You don't have to be overbearing to anybody. But on the other side, you don't have to take anything from anybody. And that was always my idea, whether it was playing football or competing in the classroom or competing in the work world. I knew what I needed to do and did my absolute best that I could to do it.

39:26

PB: I just want to say, like I said for Blacks, you know, we've always had a lot to deal with and to deal with this problem is just problems in general that everybody has in addition to dealing with the race issue. You know, we have to be. Good, strong people because it's enough for young people, old people, middle aged people to have to deal with daily problems and then also be, I mean, hit with racial issues, you know? My gosh, how much do they how much more do they think we can bear? And we were taught in Sunday school, and church that, you know, just keep the faith, have the faith and do what you're supposed to do and you will get through. And thank goodness we had those kind of a, had that kind of guidance, you know, and it at times it was hard. And even my kids there, I would say old men now, but they had to go through some of this also. So it's a, it's a world that I don't think I'll ever understand. I was looking at some of the interviews that some of the students had done. Prior to you all doing yours. And there was one lady on there she just thinks the Black race was cursed. She just felt that it was cursed. She just she pulled she went through some hard times, but she just says that we were cursed. And I don't know if I feel that strongly about it, but sometimes it does make you question religion and oh, wonder why we had to suffer so much. And I'm looking at you all. I can see that you're just in awe about some of this stuff that we're saying, because I don't believe that you can actually imagine that this that this happened. Is that, is that the case sometimes?

TB: Yeah, definitely. It's crazy to grasp.

41:47

JB: Mrs. Benning, if you don’t mind. . .

PB: What’s that?

JB: I’m sorry, go ahead.

41:54

PB: No that’s, I don't want to take too much of your time because when you get. When we get on a subject like this with anybody, it could go on and on and on. So I don't. I don't want to bore you all too much. (laughter)

GB: We'll respect your time.

42:07

PB: Yeah, well, what would you say?

42:10

JB: Okay, I just wanted to . . . You mentioned how church was a major outlet for you.

PB: Uh huh

42:15

JB: . . . I guess segregation with that was it the same in the church as it was out in the community?

Did you see it as much or is it, you know, segregated or was it more of like a close knit Black community church? Could you go into depth about that?

PB: Oh, back then it was a segregated church. I dare say that not many Caucasians, I'm just gonna say Caucasians, would have stepped foot inside our church. And because they didn't want to. They just those . . . they just didn't want to. They didn't want to go anywhere and do anything that we were doing. You know, they and it's not that we wanted to be with the Caucasian race, it's just that we wanted the freedom to enjoy some things in life that they were enjoying. But now when we were in high school, we, we took part in what we call World Day of prayer. I think we still have that. And every year our school based school would meet with some students from around the White schools. And back then were Centre stands now that's where the old Danville High was. And so you all know where that Presbyterian Church is right there on the corner, don't you, College and Main. Yeah, that's where we would... That's where we would have World Day Prayer celebration. And it seems like at least once a year we could come together and be... and I'm not gonna I can't say be civil to each other because we were always civil in most cases, but we would have a good meeting and celebration and thing to kind of get over some of the things that were going on in the community. But after that, it went back to being the same old, same old thing. But now the Catholic Church there on the Main Street, you know where that is next to the bakery. I don't know if any of you all have come down Main Street, on down far enough to where the you see the Catholic Church. Yeah, they always had okay. They always had, um, African-American members. And as far as I know that that was going on many years because it seems like what I understood, the Catholic, people of that faith seem to be able want to take care of the Blacks that were in the community where they were. It was always an integrated church. And, uh, I used to attend a Catholic church a lot with one of my girlfriends. And, and so I know a little bit about what they did in their churches. And also, it seemed to me that when we went to Danville High, you could tell who was Catholic and who was, not just by their attitude toward, toward us, you know, toward the Black race. Uh, and, and I think that's still pretty much those out on to this day, you know, but hey, I can't explain it. You all can't explain it. Nobody can explain it. But we are just probably hoping for better times for everybody.

45:38

CB: So earlier in the interview, you mentioned that you live in Ohio now. Do you have any involvement with the Danville community now, whether it be through family or community events or anything like that?

45:56

PB: Uh we come I come down I don’t have a lot of family members still living there but we do come down on occasion uh we come to Centre’s homecoming uh the few relatives I do see you know it’s not as often as I used to, Danville has changed. And I'm going to say this about Danville and probably a lot little small towns. Um, they, they are unique. They're just unique because of some of the things that, you know, you know, you've seen happen there. Oh, I know. When I moved to Louisville, I didn't experience as much racial hatred as I did in Danville, because a city the size of Louisville and there is so many people comparing to what's in Danville they're just busy going about doing the things that they have to do. And they don't stop to look at you and take time to see, uh, what color you are, what race you belong to, or whatever. Everybody's just busy, busy, busy doing what they have to do. And I think probably for a lot of people that's best. And I think for the young Black people that move away from Danville realize that. And you go to a city size of Cincinnati where we live now, or New York, California, people don't have time to stop, I don't think, and do some of the things that they did in Danville. And to me, that's better. That's best.

47:47

GB: You know, I think they do. Um, they're just more sophisticated about how the things are done. People are people no matter where they live. And, uh oh, that's just the way it is. Oh, there's no place that is free from racial strife for direction. But the world is, and I don't know that.

48:10

PB: Well, seen now I differ with that. I don't agree with my husband because I see interracial marriages. I see people dating interracially. I see people see that happen and more. And, and all of us know that. So I always say it becomes a personal thing, you know, now Gordon feels like he does. I feel like I do. My kids feel differently. So it becomes a personal thing after you get to know people and kind of understand, um, just understand them. I don't think you can. You can say it, but I don't think you can group everybody into, uh, a category of Black and White. And I can say, you see in here on the news things that are happened to Asians and, and all that. So, and then I have in my family, I have, uh, interracial marriages. Nieces and nephews that are bi racial. And so when I look at them, I just see them at people as people, not being an interracial person or child.

And also, um, I just me personally, I never did just say I hate Caucasians or anything like that because I could as an adult and even as a child, I couldn't understand how grown people could be so mean to somebody that was young. I had a high school teacher at Danville High. Uh, I was in my anatomy and physiology class with two other young, two other Black females, and the teacher wanted to know why we were taking that class if we were not going to go to med school or to be a nurse. And we, we just took it because we were interested in it. But she just insulted us and said she pointed out to us, the students in her class that have parents that were doctors there in the city of Danville and we were not qualified or could not do what they did. They were able to do what they had planned, what they their plans for the future were. So I just I just looked at her. I don't know if you should be in the teaching field if you feel like this about, I mean, the field of education. If this is what you feel about students, you are there to prepare us and to. Help shape and mold those and teaches that the things we need to do that you looking at. You're talking to me like that. And have no shame. I thought that was awful. And then one of the young men that was in my class, his mother, I know his mother. She was a doctor. And all he did in class was sleep. And I said, you're going to pair us with this young man. And we are listening to you and trying to understand what you're saying and what you're teaching And he's over there he doesn't care whether or not he's in this class or not. But that's who she compared us to. And I guess she might have felt bad later on. I don't know. But life is what it is. And you all are probably sorry you all asked us to do the interview. You probably heard more from Gordon and I than you've heard from many of the people around Danville, you know. But that's just the way it is.

51:47

HA: Whenever y'all come back to Danville now, are there any places that you'll feel welcomed at or that you enjoy going to?

51:54

PB: I didn't understand the question.

HA: Whenever y'all come back to Danville now, is there any places y'all still enjoy going to?

52:03

GB: (Laughs) There’s not a lot of places to go to. The only places we go to, out of necessity, are the restaurants, that’s about the only place we go to. And we’re fine with that (laughs). And the hotels are fine you know. We gotten to know, over the years, some of the people who manage the hotels and stuff like that. So, it is what it is. And, and you know you just have to deal with it. To me, I’m old enough, I’ve what I need to do and if I need to do more I will. But, uh, you know we’re good.

52:45

PB: Well, I, I don’t, you know Danville, Danville is a pretty town. You’d have to say that. But, now to just get excited about coming back, and it’s my hometown, I don’t get excited. I’m always happy to see my family but it’s, it’s not a lot going on there in Danville. (Chuckles) I say to my family and people, sometimes, it’s almost like is it going to fold up and close up. You know, it (laughs). Now I’m going to ask you all, where are you all from?

53:21

JB: I’m from Bowling Green, Kentucky. Which is just two hours south from here.

PB: Bowling Green?

JBs: Yes ma’am.

CB: I’m from Harrodsburg.

PB: Oh, Harrodsburg!

CB: Yes ma’am.

PB: Now, which one is from Harrodsburg? Raise your hand.

TB: Ah, he’s over there.

PB: Oh, okay. Well, as a child did you get to come to Danville very often? Was there any reason for you to come to Danville?

CB: Uh, yes ma’am. My mom has actually worked at Centre College for about thirty years. So, I’ve been around Danville and the Centre community for my whole life.

PB: Oh, okay. Okay, and so you know I’m very familiar with Harrodsburg and I can say to you about your hometown and this is not to insult you . When we came to Harrodsburg our purpose was to go to the skating rink, which probably isn’t there no more. But we did’nt have the freedom to go as often as we wanted to, we had one day out of the week that we could go and um, well, what was that little restaurant right near the skate rink? Um, hamburger joint. I can’t think of it.

GB: On the hill?

PB: Right, but you said Bowling Green is where you’re from young man. 

JB: Um, yes ma’am I am (raises hand). Yes.

PB: Okay and I’m familiar with Bowling Green, western Kentucky and we have a, um, I guess you’ve probably heard of a. Did Clem play at Bowling Green? Clem Haskins?

GB: Yeah. 

PB: Famous basketball player, played at Western in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

JB: Could you say that name again please?

PB: Clem Haskins.

JB: Oh, yes.

PB: H-A-S-K-I-N-S, yeah.

GB: I got a cousin named Jim Rose who played on the team that went to the final four.

JB: Ah, yeah, that’s awesome.

GB: Unfortunately, he passed away.

PB: So, um, how do you feel about Danville outside of Centre?

JB: Um, from my experience...

PB: And you can say it and I won’t feel bad. Pardon?

JB: No, you’re fine. From my experience it’s just, uh, it’s a lot smaller town then what I'm used to. So, it was just an adjustment getting here but once I, uh, got adjusted to it and it helps to being a part of that Centre community. So you don’t really have to go too far from here to be with your friends and stuff. But, outside in the Danville community, I, like you said, there’s not too much to do. So I kind of just, I’ve always just hung around the Centre area, not too much outside of Danville. 

PB: Right, right.

GB: Just remember you’re paying your dues (laughs).

JB: (Laughs) Yes.

GB: Once you graduate, you’re good. That’s the way to look at it.

TB: What part of Cincinnati did you guys say you’re living in now?

GB: We live in West Chester. Just about ten miles from downtown. 

TB: I live in, um, Florence, Kentucky. I live about fifteen miles from downtown. But my whole family, um, grew up in Cincinnati and went Hughes High School. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that area or not.

PB: Oh, oh okay. Yeah. 

GB: Good school.

PB: Yeah, we know that area. Yeah. When we came here we lived in, um, in a community called Forest Park and then we moved to Spring Dale, and now we’re here in West Chester. But, um, good thing about it, we’re closer to our family than we were. We used to live in the state of Texas, we went from Kentucky to Texas. But, um, we’re back home now. Closer to home. And midwest, you know, the middle west region. But, uh, hang in down there in Danville and I can assure you that (laughs).

GB: I want to ask. What are your guys majors?

JB: Um, I’m on track right now to be a BIO major, pre-med.

GB: Okay, great.

TB: And I’m a, um, an economics and I possibly going to law school.

BS: I’m a BIO major, pre-dental.

CB: I'm a sociology major.

HA: I’m planning to double major.

PB: Would you ever consider making Danville your home?

HA: I would not.

BS: (shakes head) no.

JB: Not personally.

GB & PB:(laughs)

GB: I can answer for you, no (laughing)

PB: Well (laughing)

GB: I wouldn’t want to stay there either

PB: It’s going to get better. I, I guess. I hope.

BS: Is there anything else you would like to say before we end the interview?

GB: I don’t have anything else.

PB: We, we enjoyed doing it. I hesitated to, um, do it at first because when I did the interview, I probably just showed all my emotions. But, uh, with time, even at my age I’m grown and learn to accept things, uh, about life that you just can’t change and you can’t, uh, do anything about it. Just, all I have to say is pray about it. Just pray and hopefully things will get better for everybody.

CB: Well, we appreciate y’all’s time. We appreciate y’all sharing even though they were difficult conversations to share with us. We really appreciate y’all’s time.

Blake Stewart: Yeah, thank you all.

Harrison Akers: Thank you.

Tyler Bush: Thank you.

Jaxson Banks: Thank you.

Jeffery Shenton: And I’ll just, I can’t hear, but I’ll thank you one more time also. So, thank you for putting up with this under the circumstances and thank you for doing this today. It really has meant a lot and we’ll be in touch again soon. Thank you so much.

PB: We see Michael in the background. HI Michael. Alright, you’re welcome. Oh I have a question. When will we be able to, um, look at this. When will this be aired online? How soon?

JS: So, um, we just need to get the whole thing processed and the students will be making a transcript. Um, and then they’ll go to the library and once it’s all archived and up online I will definitely let you know and you’ll be able to access it along with all the other ones you’ve seen.

PB: Well, I’ve enjoyed all of them and I, um, thank you for asking us to participate and it’s a wonderful thing that you’re doing.

JS: Absolutely, thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure and I can’t wait to actually hear what you said under the circumstances. I’ll listen to it soon and I’ll be back in touch. Thank you so much.

PB: Alright, thank you.

GB: Thank you.