James Hunn
James Hunn
Parts of this transcript were autogenerated and there may be errors.
Ayiana- Hi my name is Ayiana Ogman and today I am interviewing James Hunn who lived in Danville during the 1960s. I'm here with Connor Lee, Kyle Yarger, Trevor Zimmerman, Dr. Jeffrey Shenton, Michael Hughes and a small audience. Today is January 19, 2023 we are recording this interview in Danville Boyle County African American Historical Society. Today we will be discussing James Hunn's experiences during urban renewal.
Connor- Ok, so my first question is going to be what is one of your fondest memories of Danville.
James Hunn: I guess when I was a lot younger and we were running around, before I came to start living in Danville. Going into some of the clubs, that was around that we could go into you know… like 2nd Street, Swingland, Hollywood, like all of them on 2nd Street, they was on the south end of 2nd street.
Connor- And then, so following that question what type of things did you and your friends do for fun when you were younger.
James Hunn: Mostly play ball, baseball, ball in highschool like football. Basketball, baseball in high school, and after that in the summertime we would play ball during all the summer leagues, negro league baseball. Semi-pro baseball, I started playing semi-pro baseball when I was 13 years old.
Connor- Really?
James Hunn: Yeah.
Kyle- Um, speaking on education can you reflect on your experience at Bate.
James Hunn: I didn't go to Bate.
Kyle- Oh, you went to Danville?
James Hunn: uh no, I lived out in the country, in Lincoln County, I went to a one room school, until 8th grade and then went to high school in Danville.
Kyle- Oh, okay, can you reflect a little bit on that.
James Hunn: Yes I can, it was a good experience cause you sit in a room with eight classes. So, you got to listen to all eight classes at one time. I skipped the 3rd grade and caught up with my sister in the 4th grade, so from the 4th grade to the 12th me and my sister were in the same grade. So, when we went to highs chool we only had to buy one set of books. I did not carry any books, so it was good you know, I had good teachers. Everybody seen my handwriting, said I got good handwriting. But it's getting a little squiddy now. But, the teacher I had starting in the 4th grade. Every time I'd get outta line she would slap my hand. She would bend my hand back, with a ruler and hit it in the middle of my hand. Or she would make me sit in the corner and hold books in my hand, and every time she'd go by she would place a book on it till I let it drop. Rough.
Kyle- Yeah
Connor- So how many students went to your school and I assume there was one teacher?
James Hunn: Yes, one teacher, there were about 30 or 40 kids.
Connor- Wow
James Hunn: Yeah, let me see in my class there were five of us I believe, in elementary school. There were five of us, and when I went to high school there were 22 of us, but when we graduated there were only 13 of us left. And today there are only 3 of us left, and then uh.. All the males in my class went to Vietnam.
Connor- So what were some of the main reasons why such a small amount of people graduated from school.
James Hunn: There weren't that many people in school, Oh you mean that left?
Connor- Yeah, that left.
James Hunn: Some of them was a lot older than we were, I guess some were way behind. Three or four left and others left they went to different schools. That left us with 13.
Trevor- Are you still in contact with some of the people today?
James Hunn: Yes, the three that were left, we had two to die in the last two years, one died the year before and one just died.
Connor- So did most of these people stay in Danville or did they leave?
James Hunn: No
Connor- They left?
James Hunn: None of them are in Danville, one of them is in Stanford, most of them were in Stanford, either out in the country, more in Houstonville, Turnerville, Mckinney, but all of us went to that school in Stanford. Most of them called it the negro high school in Lincoln County.
Kyle- You were speaking on the Vietnam war, what effect did the draft have on your community and like the people you were going up with your own age.
James Hunn: You know it took a lot of people, we lost a whole generation of young people during the Vietnam war. And you know the reason I went in, got to the draft because I dropped out of college.
Kyle- What college did you attend?
James Hunn: Kentucky state, I went there in 1958-1959 to Kentucky State, and uh I was working and so uh, in August ‘59, before I went back to college, they sent me a letter and told me they weren't going to give me no working scholarship. They gave someone else the same opportunity. They just wanted me to play football, without a scholarship and I wouldn't do it. I couldn't do it, couldn't afford to do it.
Connor- What position did you play in football?
James Hunn: Linebacker
Connor- Was your football team integrated?
James Hunn: No it was all Black
Kyle- Even in college?
James Hunn: Yeah, it was all Black. There might have been a few there that went to highschool. I think about one or two White students went to night school at Kentucky State. But the whole school was all Black.
Ayiana- Did you enjoy your time on the team.
James Hunn: Well I wasn't on that team, but the high school team I really enjoyed it, it was fun. And I tried out for a football team at Quantico too.
Connor- So outside of football what do you think your passions were growing up, like what led you to go to Kentucky State, did you have any other interests that you wanted to pursue?
James Hunn: I wanted to go to veterinary school, I was a country boy so, I was riding animals my whole life you know farming, hard work. I said I'd never milk another cow in my life but I did.
Connor- So you said you lived on a farm, what were some of the animals you raised?
James Hunn: Hogs, Cows, few horses, chickens, I don't know if you call them [inaudible], a big garden. We would grow tobacco and corn.
Connor- So can you tell us about your family growing up on that farm?
James Hunn: Yeah, I um, let's see I had two older sisters, an older brother and two younger sisters and a younger brother. So, I was in the middle of seven kids. And my mother died at an early age, so it left just about seven to Dad. He did get married once but it didn't last long, she couldn't handle me.
Connor- So what was life like without a mother growing up with just a dad and how did your dad manage to handle seven kids and kind of keep you guys under control, it seems like a hard task.
James Hunn: No it wasn't too hard, we all took care of one another, cause my brother, my older sister was 15 and my brother was 13 then my sister was 7/6/8, maybe. And I turned 6 five days after my mother died, so he couldn't take care of us for awhile so his older sister came and stayed with us for a couple of years until he decided to get married again, then she left. He kept us all together. That's what he wanted to do to keep us all together. He didn't want. . . Some of the people in the neighborhood wanted to take us but he didn't agree to it so he kept us together.
Kyle- After leaving college at Kentucky State, what did you end up getting in to, what was life like after that?
James Hunn: Well I left in that spring that summer, to play baseball in the summer, the semi-pro that summer and then joined the Marine Corp in December ‘59. And left Danville January of '60.
Kyle- Where were you stationed?
James Hunn: I went to Paris Island, then LeJeune and then Quantico, I spent a lot of time in Quantico, Va.
Kyle- Thank you for your service.
James Hunn: Best time of my life, I was young and ambitious but I'm not that way now. I might have a little ambition but I ain't young.
Kyle- Can you reflect a little bit about what you experienced in the military during that time, was discrimination and segregation a big part of your experiences?
James Hunn: You know, no, we after WW2 actually after the Korean War, they combined the races together, you know, so there was no separation, but there were still a lot of problems you know with rank structure. In '62 I had the highest test score in the battalion and more time in the marines Corp and more time in grade than anyone in the battalion but they did not pass me over from e3 to e4. So, they told me they were gonna put me up in supply and put me in supply in a another wharehouse and if I did good they'd promote me in December. I said thad do me no good. I'm getting out Friday. So I got a medical discharge in '62 and that's when I came to Danville, I actually got married in '60, December '60. and by the time I was discharged my wife was renting a house in Danville. It was off in the 7th street area, back of Centre where the new dormitory is at, back in the back. Seventh Street ran through threre. I lived on the corner of 7th Street and Louise Street. 149 7th Street.
Kyle- So you can speak directly on urban renewal on 7th street and the whole process?
James Hunn: Yeah, yeah the whole process. They have a sign they have up, I've got a map up that shows what the actual streets were, you know. Seventh Street was the first area they chose to develop when they started urban renewal.
Kyle- Can you sort of walk us through what happened from your perspective in what happened in urban renewal in 7th street and what sort of happened first.
James Hunn: There was a guy, the people who were over urban renewal actually one of the criteria you had to live in the area. They was gonna buy the houses, they would come to you and see, and I chose to have one built off of South 2nd Street. Southland Heights they're calling it now. Had a house built there. But it was supposed to be paid for with one mortgage. But when I got ready to close out, to actually buy the house, they wanted me to take out a second mortgage and I wouldn't do it. Had a good job, had a car, had two kids, so. . . I didn't think that was right for me to have to pay two mortages for that house, it wasn't costing that much. When I got out of the Marine Corp and the best neighborhoods in Danville, like Green Acres, one named Paula Heights were bringing about 25 thousand dollars, now they are about 200-300 thousand dollars.
Connor- So I understand you were a part of the NAACP, how did the result of urban renewal inspire you to kinda join that.
James Hunn: Well i've always been interested in I guess progress and the NAACP. I went into the NAACP a little late. But uh, I had more trouble on jobs than anything else. I used the EEOC, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission of the Human Rights Commission to do a lot more things for the good than the NAACP did. Because they wanted the lawyers and the money.
Student: Do you think your experiences with urban renewal in Danville inspired you to join the commission for so long?
James Hunn: No, I think helping people. Helping People. I always had a knack for helping people, even in the Marine Corp. Most of your World War II veterans could barely read and write. And so they had a hard time passing the tests for promotions and things. So I taught a class, them a class at night to help them get promoted. Because in '62 they had a lot of . . . . what do you call. . . they wasn't fully. . . they held a rank but they didn't get pay. That wasn't really right. They had to change the rank structure so they had so long before to get into the new rank structure and they had to take a test. So, when I went in the structure had been changed, so I was already in that new structure so I was helping them. You know.
Student: That sounds very inspirational.
James Hunn: And I still help a lot of people. I went back to school and I got a -uhh- not only the Human Rights Commission. I stayed on the Lexington Fair Housing Council too for 20 years and the Human Rights Commission for about 20 years for Housing, Employment discrimination. Had some very interesting cases… two were up at the factories and one just happened last year. But I was off from where they hung some nooses in some areas where Blacks was working. I told the lady who's the Human Rights Commissioner now to handle it. To do. To make sure you take somebody with you. So if they call or ask to investigate you, always take somebody with you. 'Cause they can’t say its hearsay. So I went back to school and got a criminal justice degree.
Kyle: Where'd you go back to school at?
James Hunn: Eastern
Kyle: Eastern?
James Hunn: uh hmm, they used to have a campus here so I only had to take two classes in on campus
Kyle: They used to have a campus here in Danville?
James Hunn: Yeah down there at the shopping center and I got nine hours for my military service too.
Trevor : So you mentioned earlier Swingland, is that right?
James Hunn: Yep
Trevor : What kind of 2nd Street like for you?
James Hunn: Party time, it was party time all weekends.
Trevor : Can you tell me about that with like your experiences?
James Hunn: Mostly dancing, you know, dancing and food, food, party, drinks, all kinds- it was nice you know. You go from one to another one closed, you go to another one.
Connor: So other than 2nd Street what were some of your favorite spots prior to urban renewal?
James Hunn: That was about the only one you could go to.
Connor: Are there any places today that you think the Black community can pride themselves around?
James Hunn: I think all of them where they live at, all of them they took pride in where they lived in. One thing about urban renewal they didn't take any you know… there was some rundown White neighborhoods too that were just as bad but they never touched one of them. Like, uhm, let me see. Shakertown Road, Sycamore Street, Beech Street . uhm North 3rd street, some other ones there too. Over there by the Baptist Church on Lexington Avenue back over there [inaudible] they didn't touch any of that. Nowhere that is was rundown White neighborhood. Took just the Blacks and they took the Blacks, it might have been a federal government reason, the federal government.
Kyle: When Urban Renewal was just starting happening. Did you initially recognize it as a negative or something they were doing for like a you know racial connotation or is something you had to realize in retrospect in retrospect hindsight?
James Hunn: I first thought it was a good idea you know, it was good… the sound of it was good but when you got to the nuts and bolts of it it wasn't as good as you thought it was gonna be. My in-laws they lived on the corner of Rose Street and 7th St. they had their house paid for and they wanted them to take a mortgage on a house they had built. They was building a replaced house.
Kyle: They had already like paid everything off?
James Hunn: And they were not the only ones, there were 2 or 3 more people down there on that street that had their houses paid off that winded up having to pay more money and what you call it wouldn't give enough money to pay for the house. And I think they had shady contractors that's my opinion.
Dr. Shenton: Can we talk more about the specifics of that 7th Street urban renewal project. Is that okay?
James Hunn: Yeah,
Dr. Shenton: So you were asked to pay two mortgages to move into the house on South Second. Is that right?
James Hunn: umm hmm
Dr. Shenton: Did you ever live in that house or did you decide not to live in that house?
James Hunn: I didn't … on South Second?
Dr. Shenton: Yeah
James Hunn: I didn't live in it now. I wouldn't take it all.
Dr. Shenton: What did you do instead with your family?
James Hunn: I stayed. We stayed we was renting a house. We staying in the rental house.
Dr. Shenton: Where was that?
James Hunn: It was on South 4th Street.
Dr. Shenton: South 4th?
James Hunn: Yeah
Dr. Shenton: Can you tell a little bit about the neighborhood on 7th Street? What that was like and also where those folks other than you ended up living after the project.
James Hunn: Some of them down there. 7th Street was known as “the dogpatch.” They called it “the dogpatch.” And some of them to me were pretty good houses. Some of them a little actually moved back in that area. Some of them would move up on 5th Street, one or two houses on 5th Street. Some of them move back on Louise Street. Some moved on Lexington Avenue too. Some of them moved back down in there. And only one or two houses remained in there. On one they had uhh they remodeled it, one on Rose Street and one on West Lexington Street they stayed there… maybe two… Mike still here?
Dr. Shenton: Hes coming back… he left for a little while
James Hunn: I’m sure Ms. Green house was still there an old woman. She used to make beaten biscuits.
Dr. Shenton: Did all… were all the houses that people moved into in the area were those built by urban renewal and with money from urban renewal or were they existing before that
James Hunn: no most of them down on 7th street?
Dr. Shenton: Yeah
James Hunn: no they was most all built most all built with some money by urban renewal.
Dr. Shenton: So all those houses on Rose and on Lexington now were all built with urban renewal money, is that true?
James Hunn: Umm hmm
Dr. Shenton: And would you say most of the people that live in that area that live in that area now lived in that area before?
James Hunn: Most of them were new people
Dr. Shenton: Were trying to get a sense of where the people that lived in that area ended up after urban renewal and your saying that nearby?
James Hunn: Nearby, yeah, most of them
Dr. Shenton: Okay
James Hunn: And a lot of them couldn't afford to buy a house and so they had to move or stay and rented.
Dr. Shenton: So a lot of the people there were tenants, right, they didn’t own the property. They stayed and rented the property they were living on?
James Hunn: Yeah, well some of them were. All from Main Street down to Rose Street all them was tenant houses down through that a way.
Dr. Shenton: Do you know who owned that property before it was sold to urban renewal
James Hunn: No
* Phone rings
James Hunn: crap
Dr. Shenton: It’s alright
James Hunn: Got the Marine Corp ode
Dr. Shenton: Love it. So you’re not sure who owned it before urban renewal bought it?
James Hunn: No I can’t think of the man’s name, there was one man who owned it all on the east side of 7th St mostly just row houses all down that street. All the way from Main st to Rose st.
Dr. Shenton: So he sold it as a whole?
James Hunn: I suppose he did, I guess he did but I'm not sure.
Dr. Shenton: Okay
James Hunn: He owned I guess he didn’t have to sell it to them. Well I guess he did. I guess he had to.
Dr. Shenton: That’s one thing we’re curious about whether or not. Was that, do you know, was he a white owner?
James Hunn: Was a white man when we lived down there. I’ve been trying to think of everything and its been a long time and I can’t do it.
Dr. Shenton: What would you say about that community about before and after the 7th Street project. Would you say the people that lived there was it changed in a significant way or was it changed?
James Hunn: It changed, yeah, big change.
Dr. Shenton: Can you talk about how it changed?
James Hunn: Well you know new people moved in they was owning their own home while some of the there wasn’t renting any more, they was, owning a piece of property. You know so that, there was a big change.
Dr. Shenton: And that was a positive change?
James Hunn: Yeah, a positive change.
Dr. Shenton: Was there any negative changes from the 7th St project?
James Hunn: Well I don’t know, I don’t think so, I think the biggest change now that they told the people didn’t live up to what they said they was gonna do. Now that was very negative.
Dr. Shenton: In terms of being, of getting new houses that were paid for already. So it sounds to me the major thing you’re saying is that they were not upfront about the fact that you were, that these families were gonna have to take up big mortgages that paid for the houses
James Hunn: Correct. Right, right.
Dr. Shenton: Do you think that most people that ended up taking that deal were able to pay the mortgages or did they end up having to move?
James Hunn: Most of them got paid. And some of them some of the houses down on like South 2nd Street, some of the people who bought houses on S. 2nd St. they lived in those houses they didn’t actually live in 7th Street. But you know, I guess, for urban renewal to get some of the money back they had to decide that people could afford to buy the houses.
Dr. Shenton: So you're saying that people built the houses with urban renewal money and other people who weren’t from 7th ended up living there is that right?
James Hunn: mhmm
Dr. Shenton: So they were just taking the highest bidder at that point?
James Hunn: Yeah, I guess you could say that.
Dr. Shenton: This is all great information. We're interestd in the specifics of that because we don't have a lot of information on the specifics of the 7th Street project, so this is really important.
James Hunn: It was. . . During that time that was a big deal, a really big deal. It was good for the people. It sounded good, anyway. For me it didn't turn out good.
Dr. Shenton: Was the house you were offered on South 2nd Street was that apart of Batewood Homes or was that?
James Hunn: No, well I was living in Batewood Homes at that time too. Then I moved out. Well I changed jobs, I got a job in Lexington and so when you live in Batewood its dependent on your income so if you get a better income you know, they take about a week of your money, you know, for rent.
Dr. Shenton: So that was different deal because that had been built beforehand right?
James Hunn: Yeah
Dr. Shenton: And the houses that were built from urban renewal where on South Second were those specific houses built?
James Hunn: Southland Heights
Dr. Shenton: What’s that
James Hunn: Sou-th La-nd Heights
Dr. Shenton: Southland Heights okay
James Hunn: Down there on the west side of 2nd St across the bridge
Dr. Shenton: Yep okay thanks
James Hunn: All them houses up there was developed for people supposed to had been developed for people that had been on 7th Street.
Dr. Shenton: 7th Street.
James Hunn: Would have been on 7th Street.
Dr. Shenton: So some of those people ended up moving there but not all of them
James Hunn: I can’t remember I don’t remember all but one person if my memory served me right that actually moved there from 7th street and that was my in-laws.
Dr. Shenton: Okay. was everyone else that moved into that area from Danville or from outside?
James Hunn: No, well there was another one another family that moved into there too from off 7th St over there yeah. But most of the people that owned property down there they had one built back 2 built back 3 built back and one went to 5th St 1 or 2 of them went to 5th Street. On the 5th and Lexington street.
But most of the rest of them were living the only one I know might have lived down on 2nd have lived down there not sure at that time yeah
Dr. Shenton: So people on 7th ended up spreading out a little bit but most stayed in town is what you're saying.
James Hunn: Yeah so like the neighborhood. Of course, they couldn't go in anywhere like Paula Heights or Green Acres or some other White neighborhoods in the 60s in '68.
Dr. Shenton: So you’re saying there were some specific places they could move but there weren't that many.
James Hunn: yeah right because I know I had a friend who tried to buy a house in Paula Heights. This is about '68 or '69 and the White people got together and bought up the house. So to dodge him from moving in it.But actually bought it out from under him.
Dr. Shenton: So there were some concerted efforts to keep…
James Hunn: To keep Blacks where they wanted to keep them and that has not only happened here but a lot of other places too. You look at all your national highways and the state highways and most of the towns that they went through they went through Black neighborhoods all build in and around Black neighborhoods
Kyle: At the beginning of our class we were studying that in Louisville and how they divided Louisville based off neighborhoods and such through the highway system
James Hunn: Not only Louisville but everywhere else. uhmm I don’t think Lexington maybe not so much but a lot of towns like Morehead, Winchester, Mount Sterling, Lawrenceville straight through, same thing with West Virginia. They went right through the heart of uhh Charleston, West Virginia.
Kyle : So you were talking about how you eventually moved to Lexington
James Hunn: No I never moved to Lexington I worked in Lexington
Kyle: you worked in Lexington. What made you stay in Danville then following the effects of urban renewal
James Hunn: I don’t want to move nowhere else, my wife’s from Danville it’s better to keep here.
Kyle: Do you think uhh breaking apart 7th Street affected the community that was on 2nd Street like Swingland all the parties and such do you think that had a effect on the surrounding community as well.
James Hunn: Nah, I don't think so. You know, they finally went out of business. See when they got up where that they go other places than Swingland and Hollywood, it made a difference. When it began to intergrate you lose a lot of your ethnic background and everything. Same way with the schools. Because you know in school all your teachers were Black. A lot were your ministers, teachers, and people in the neighborhood was just a close knit family affair. Some of us in '60 . . .'54 or '55 - '56! I guess when I was a sophmore, we had a chance we could go to the white school, Lincoln County High School. The Black school was in Stanford. None of us wanted to go. So we all stayed where we were at. Why go somewhere else for two years? That's the way I looked at it.
Conno: So what were your thoughts on Centre College at this time? Like honestly, you can answer honestly. [laughter]
James Hunn: I guess Centre was you know, it was a long time, they would take African students but they never would take anybody I knew of, from the states. There was one or two Africans students over there when I got out of the service in 62’. But you know they gave people jobs, but here later they have been a good neighbor. I used their library when I was in college. I went over and asked them, “Could I use their library," they said yeah, so.
Trevor- Has your perception of Centre changed at all through the years?
James Hunn: Yes it has, they may have had a few bad apples over there, but mostly everybody’s, nice y’know. People change, you know, we all change. I worked with a guy, but it was somewhere, someway he talked, I decided I didn’t like that guy. We was working on the railroad, we went from Danville to Oakdale, Tennessee. We was sitting in the dormitory one day, and he says, “James come on lets walk up the tracks. Let's take a walk.” So we walked a mile up, mile back, and we got to talking. We had the same ideas, same thoughts, about a lot of things, and it was a mind changing thing to me y’know? I said I’ll never do that again. I never would determine I wouldn't like somebody because of their speech, their look, or how they act. I would judge them individually, and that’s what I began to do, y’know.
Kyle- At Eastern?
James Hunn: No, on the railroad, I worked on the railroad for 20 years.
Kyle- Were you still living in Danville during 1969?
James Hunn: Yes.
Kyle- We talked about the other day, the barbershop protests and Centre’s involvement in that, were you aware of the barbershop protests during the time?
James Hunn: No, I was in Danville during '69 but I was working a lot, so I didn’t pay much attention to a lot of that stuff, and Danville wasn’t my home, so I wasn't too much interested in things going on in Danville. Now if it had been in Stanford I probably would have been right in the middle of it.
Kyle- It was where you were living but it wasn't your home community?
James Hunn: Yeah
Ayiana- Where was most of your community during that time?
James Hunn: I lived in Danville til 1962 to '72, 10 years, I built a house in Stanford. We moved to Stanford in '72 and we stayed there until 80’. Father got sick, my kids got older, and my sister lived in Danville and so they was calling back and forth. She was calling her father y’know checking in and everything and they was long distance calls then, so we decided, in 80’ we decided to move back to Danville. And when I got to work they had to call me long distance. So finally we got together with all the men that lived in Lincoln county and surrounding areas, we finally put a phone in, down at the railroad. And paid for it ourselves while we’d call.
Ayiana- Do you think those long distance calls helped keep that sense of community for you?
James Hunn:vvvv Yes
Ayiana- Seems like a lot of things were going on.
James Hunn: I was running a little farm too when I was in Lincoln county, teaching kids about chicken and hogs and cows and ponies, everything y’know.
Kyle- The stuff you dealt with when you were growing up?
James- Growing up yeah. When I left home I said I’d never milk another cow, but I got a cow, showed them how to milk and take care of it, so it was very interesting.
James Hunn: Awful quiet
Ayiana- Well hold on, you came here wanting to talk about Urban Renewal, thats what I heard
James Hunn: We got off course didn’t we
Kyle- Started talking about farms, ponies
Ayiana- Is there anything we haven't asked you that you want to talk about?
James Hunn: No, y’all wanna ask me any more questions?
Ayiana- Well we have a lot of questions, so
James Hunn: Fire away
Kyle- You said you moved back to Lincoln during the early 80’s. Did you notice a big difference from when you lived there during the 60’s from the 80’s revolving around the African American community?
James Hunn: Yes, it was almost gone.
Kyle- Was it shocking?
James Hunn: Well not really, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Kyle- When you got back was the majority of second street completely gone?
James Hunn: Yes, it was gone in the 70’s
Kyle- While you were gone?
James Hunn: Yes, 7th, 6th Street, I believe Second Street was one, then it went out on West Danville, then it went down Dillingham, over there
Kyle- Did you see the effects of Urban Renewal in a more rural community, such as Stanford or was that something more localized?
James Hunn: Urban Renewal didn’t come over there. I guess they maintained larger cities with a larger black population. Most Black people in Stanford lived out in the country. There was a few that lived in town but most of us country orientated.
Connor- So do you have any stories you can share on some impacts that people experienced directly from Urban Renewal, like some personal impacts?
James Hunn: I don't know any, say impact y’know it just process of moving to a different area y’know, impacted that way.
Kyle- Rather that like a sudden, immediate change to the community it was sort of like a slow, drawn out, process?
James Hunn: No I think it was a big change, y’know. When you destroy a whole neighborhood, they had to stay somewhere while they was going on, build a new house, rent a new house. Some of them was, my in-laws, they house was built before they had to move, so they gave them moving expenses too but they still had to take out a second mortgage.
Kyle- When they offered several people new houses after they rebuilt them and such did you feel like the houses were inflated in their price, for their quality like worth it?
James Hunn:I guess at that time they were quality homes, the material was good y’know, cheaper than it is today. It was probably built good, but there was so much extra money you had to pay for it.
Kyle- that's what I was sort of saying like they inflated, overdrew the price just to draw out the residents of the neighborhood before.
Trevor- When you got offered that second mortgage instead of the first one you agreed upon, what was your reaction to that?
James Hunn: Oh no this ain't gonna happen. You're doing something that you didn't tell me that I didn't have to do y’know. Try to make me do something. I don't have to take it, and I didn’t take it.
Trevor- So there was no mention of a second mortgage ever they just sprung it on you?
James Hunn: No, they did it at closing, I guess a lot of other people they did the same thing. . . .Waiting on a question
Ayiana- So many things to ask about, I really am interested in this sense of helping people you've talked about a lot, especially through the military and the commission, is there any experience you'd like to share regarding those or something that stuck out.
James Hunn: One lady came to me, and she was working at Wendy’s. I think they fired her- they fired her, because she wasn’t in dressed like Wendy’s. And she told me, ”Mr. Jimmy” Everybody calls me Mr. Jimmy, “There's a lady up there wearing the same thing I am and she's still working” I had another member of the commission then went up there and talked to the manager, but it didn't help none. And another time I was helping a young lady, a friend of my daughters, and she was getting put out of an apartment over in Stanford. But the man that owned the house lived in Danville so they stayed in a small claim court to see if they could get they money. And my daughter asked me, “Will you go to court with Michele?” I said yeah I'll go with her, and so when she went before the judge they got a talking y’know, so she gonna have to move do this, do that, and finally I said well if you don't take what she’s offering you, you might not get anything, and the Judge said, “Are you talking about taking bankruptcy?” I said Yes sir. She said let me tell you something son, “Don’t you come back in my court room unless you got a license to practice law.” So next time I went to court with somebody he said, “Mr. Hunn” I was on jury duty in small claim court. When the trial was over and everything he said, “Mr Hunn, you're the best juror I ever had” I said yeah right! Next time I went to court with somebody I didn’t say nothing.
Connor- I don't think we've gotten into much detail yet what you did for work?
James Hunn:Where at? When I got out of the service in '62 I worked down to the (unintelligible) for about a couple of months, and then I drew out unemployment for about 2 or 3 months, then I got where Community Bank is on Main Street, there was a church there, first Christian Church. I got a job there as a janitor. I worked there for about a year, then I went to Lexington to work, and from Lexington I went to work on the railroad for 20 years.
Kyle- And that's when you had that conversation that made you change your perspective about judging people.
James Hunn: Yeah, and then, well I got fired from the railroad for speeding, and I really wasn't fired for speeding for what I did. I was fired for lawsuit, for discrimination lawsuit. We filed a discrimination lawsuit in ‘68 and they finally made it a class action lawsuit and it went from Cincinnati to Chattanooga, so eight or seve people got a little money, it was six of us that were the first ones that got together to file the original lawsuit, within a year five of us were gone. So I called an attorney. The attorneys we had were out of Cincinnati so they wanted 75 dollars an hour to come down from Cincinnati to investigate the claim. I said shoot, I'm gonna get me a job, ain’t gonna pay y’all no 75 dollars, but I went to the labor board, me and another white guy, both of us were engineers and we both were going for speeding. They put him back to work and I lost my job. But I know when we left, somehow I felt that when we left the labor board that he was gonna get his job and I wasn't. But in ‘64, ‘65 when we went to the labor board, they put him back to work in August of 65’. If I let them make the trip, I would have had them, but everything they signed off in the degree they didn't live up to. Everybody would be treated the same for the same offense y’know. They get the same time off, but they didn’t.
Kyle: Do you think this sort of like –uh– injustice and discrimination sort of what inspired you to get that criminal justice degree and like pursue an education?
James Hunn: Well, yeah, in a way. But I was told when I was a kid that I was gonna be a lawyer, but I never did get that far. Well I had a chance to go to law school, but uh – but I was offered to go to uh – um – to school – uh – where that the McNair – Dr. McNair – scholarship. I was offered the Dr. McNair scholarship to go on to school and I wouldn’t take it, I told ‘em to give it to some other person that opportunity to take that scholarship and use it. They wanted to [inaudible] my [inaudible] too and I don’t– uh – I didn’t – I didn’t want no – I didn’t want nobody but me knowing.
Connor: So do you think you can go into more details about some more examples of discrimination you faced in the workforce?
James Hunn: Started in the Marine Corps.
Kyle: You- you were talking to us about the – the ranks.
James Hunn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle: and what you had to deal with them regarding – uh – discrimination, promotion–
James Hunn: Yeah, yeah. Mostly promotion.
Kyle: Mhm.
James Hunn: It was all promotion. They now, I never had a job in my lifetime where I never felt like I wasn’t being discriminated against. When I was working in Lexington, I was working in a factory, and usually you’d see guys come in, guys that you would train and they would move up ahead of you. Yeah.
Ayiana: Was that something you feel like you had to accept a part of daily life or did you feel like you were very much pushing against it?
James Hunn: Yeah, I was pushing against it. I- I wasn’t accepting it you know.
Ayiana: Mhm.
James Hunn: Yeah, yeah. I was questioning it. Always had a question about it.
Kyle: Do you think–
James Hunn: Yea–
Kyle: Oh my bad.
James Hunn: Yeah I always questioned it. Not only myself, everybody else that I say done been around a mystery. You can now say something
Kyle: Oh, so I was gonna ask with regards to your own personal experience, and then – uh – the desire of helping others not have to experience that, do you think that sort of inspired you to get in that role in the N– NAACP?
James Hunn: Yes. It- Yeah. It did. Cause, some of the people didn’t know, really know how to go about doing it.
Kyle: Mhm. Like fighting against it?
James Hunn: Fighting against it yeah.
Kyle: So you were helping others learn how to fight against it?
Connor: What sort of progress do you think y’all made with the – uh – the N – NW–
James Hunn: NAACP. Tongue tying, ain’t you?
Connor: Yeah. What sort of progress do you think you guys made over the years?
James Hunn: We uh – We made a lot of progress over the years, y’know. We did a lot of things that– uh – a lot of people don’t know about that we got done, y’know? And they reaped the harvest of it, y’know. We don’t, we don’t brag about what we do either. I don’t brag about what I do either, y’know.
Kyle: Did all the messy work like the – the hard stuff and then the – cause people nowadays are like, more or less getting the rewards of it for the hard work you put in
James Hunn: Yeah.
Kyle: and y’all put in.
James Hunn: I’m not saying re– yeah I guess a way – but it’s not – you’re just doing a job.
Kyle: Mhm.
James Hunn: It’s not hard work it’s just doing to get a job done.
Kyle: Mhm.
James Hunn: See – See something that need to be done, get it done. Y’know? See somebody else being mistreated, say somethin’ about it.
Ayiana: Well, I know this wasn't the point of the interview, but I feel like I’ve learned a lot of life lessons from you and I really do appreciate all of the stories you’ve been able to tell us –
James Hunn: Yeah, that’s good. I've been through it.
Ayiana: Mhm.
James Hunn: And happy to get through it.
Kyle: Yeah, I appreciate all the personal stories you’ve told us and then sort of like the idea of getting to know you as a person, like, getting to know your desire to help people and how you’ve put that into action through work. And I think it’s pretty noble of you to view it less as hard work and more as like an obligation to help people, you know, you know, that might not know how to help themselves.
James Hunn: Yeah, yeah. Somebody always need help.
Kyle: Mhm.
James Hunn: And if you could help ‘em you should help ‘em. Seriously.
Dr. Shenton: Are there any other aspects of your life here in Danville or Lincoln County that we haven’t covered that you’d like to – to talk about since we have you on the microphone today?
James Hunn: Yeah, not that I know of. Y’all got any more – ah – questions and I’ll answer them.
Connor: Think that is it. For us at least, if the audience has any questions they wanna go over –
Michael Hughes: A question – I got a question for the panel. I would just like to know if all of the students that we’ve encountered in the last – what have — what has changed and what have you learned – uh – your perceptions of what life of African Americans were prior to these interviews and what are you – what do you think now?
Trevor: I think personally for me prior to these interviews I wasn’t well-informed at all. I didn’t know much about African history, about African Americans in Danville or – I’m from Atlanta I don’t know much about – obviously I know MLK – like – but I don’t know much about what happened there either. And going through this class and talking to all you guys has definitely made me well informed and is gonna help me later in life talk to – like just having conversations with people about this kind of stuff – I think that’ll help everybody.
Michael Hughes: Anybody, uh–
Kyle: I would agree with that idea I would – uh - share the same sentiment that I didn’t really know as well about the history of African Americans in Danville and even the whole concept of Urban Renewal specifically in Danville - y’know – something that this class has really opened my eyes to and I would like to also share the idea that seeing and talking to someone face to face and hearing their story and their personal story face to face – or whether you’re in the audience – is a really big game changer rather than just learning what’s happening out of a history book or learning in class. I think it really helps to show the humanity, the personal of it.
Michael Hughes: That’s the point I was looking for is what you can read and what you can hear from all the interviews does it make a difference in how you — you – you uh – see life for African Americans, not only here in Danville, but just in general.
James Hunn: Most history books on African Americans is white-washed. You know what I mean by white-washed?
Kyle: Yep.
James Hunn: It’s not shown right, it’s not to the point. You know, it’s a lot different than what’s in that book. I picked up a book over here not too long ago and read it. And the first two or three pages saw something that wasn’t written correct on the history of African Americans and I wouldn’t read the rest of it.
Michael Hughes: There’s a book that I saw online. Go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead, – I’ll just – Go ahead. I’m – I’m looking for a book anyway.
Tovi: To- to answer your question I was just gonna say just how unique everyone’s story is and like even though everyone kinda has like similar events happen to them and things like that their reactions to it and their like ways to move past it are so unique that it’s just, it’s so interesting in that way. That like no two people react to like the same event.
James Hunn: You– You exactly right. You ain’t know what a man or woman do till you walk in their shoes.
Michael Hughes: Ok and uh – anybody else got any comments?
Dr. Shenton: Other comments or thoughts?
Michael Hughes: Will this same class be on Monday?
Dr. Shenton: This same group?
Michael Hughes: Yeah, the same.
Dr. Shenton: It’ll be a different version of it, we have thirty students so it’ll be a different – different group. We have five interviewers on Monday, is that gonna be uh on Zoom too? Or is it gonna be in person?
Michael Hughes: No, we gon’ do it here. And the reason I said that because you will see a different perspective of how integration affected – uh – two young ladies that went to Danville High School and a lot of people, a lot of people that – that – that went to Dan– Yeah – of course you heard my story, but these young ladies went to Danville high school before integration was actually in full. Y’know, and they have stories of how they feel like they was treated. A lot of people won’t say – There are two young ladies that went to Boyle County high school they – that said that they encountered the N word everyday, y’know. Um – but they wanted to come in sit down and have an interview, y’know. These ladies, I don’t know if they were – encountered that much but at the same time they did encounter certain things so I – we was trying to get them in and they finally – uh agreed – to come in. Not the two ladies from Ba- Boyle County, but the two young ladies that went to Danville High and they’ll be here on – on Monday. So I – you will hear a difference stories in how things were for them. But, it makes me feel good that you guys have – and I can tell, I can tell by your interviews and I can tell by all the time that we’ve talked but, y’know, you’re in depth feelings about it y’know I just wanted to say thank you for what y’all have done.
James Hunn: I’d like to, I’d like to y’know. For myself, y’know, I didn’t really have any contact growing up with white people till I was in the Marine Corps. The only few that I had was white farmers around the area that I worked for, but far as people my age, I never had that contact. Twenty years old, eighteen –nineteen years old yes it was so it was a bit of [inaudible] and I– and a lot of guys – uh – I had a friend that I’ve been trying to [inaudible] since I got in the Marine Corps – uh – from West Virginia. And me and him got close together while we was at [ inaudible ], yeah. We same side, wore same clothes, we go in each others wall lockers, walked in the same thing and it was a holiday in a week, his father owned a place up in um – um – in Skyline off of Skyline Drive up into the mountains. We’d go up in the mountains and stayed up for one day. Got back, and was a good experience. And I’d catch a ride from [inaudible] to West [inaudible] to get around and hitchhike home. Sometime I’d catch a bus coming back home, and if I’d come back early, I’d call him he’d pick me up and we’d go back to his house – was nice.
Michael Hughes: One of my closest , he– he’s passed, now that we met in Vietnam, and I mean you talking about white guy that day in and day out we was with each other and – and you know – even until the time – I never got the chance to get with him after we both left ‘Nam, but we always stayed in phone contact until the last few years uh that he got sick then, and then he passed but I – I – I – you know, I value that relationship you know. I want to a book called ‘Without Sanctuary’ you know, are y’all familiar with that book? I – I haven’t read it, but I do know I’ve read some intake on it its about how it was for black folks back in the day when they used to be – in this book this guy talks about how they used to take black folks and they would put them on a stick and rot– you know, and – and when they’d get their parts out they would hold em up with they arm or something and take pictures with them and stuff, like that. I think that would give you a different perspective on, you know, I – if you had the chance to read it I don’t know if it’s in public libraries or not.
Dr. Shenton: Do you know the author?
Michael Hughes: Uhm. Two guy– Two– Two White guys wrote the book uhm, “Without Sanctuary”. I haven’t read it yet. But I , couple days ago it came across my think you know. But um, I just wanted to, that’s all I’ve got for you guys. You know so, but if you do – I want to read it myself and I – I think they say a lot of it is photographs, a lot of photographs and how it was. But, what we have said – we – we have talked about – We call each other jar heads because we both were in the Marines, but what I’m saying is–
James Hunn: Devil dogs.
Michael Hughes: Yeah, but what I’m saying is that he’s – we both probably twenty years from now, I’m just gonna say, we’ll be a memory. You know. But I want, I hope–
James Hunn: I hope not.
Michael Hughes: Oh, I hope not either. I’ll take thirty or fourty years, anyway my point is that I want you guys to remember twenty years down the road, you know, what you learned. And what you, that’s what I’m saying is, we hope what we have did here in the last months or so, or years, will stick with you for that period of time. All your life.
James Hunn: And gave a better view and understanding on what it's like to be African American, that’s what the main points y’know.
Michael Hughes: That’s all I got.
Dr. Shenton: Any final words or thoughts for us Mr. Hunn?
James Hunn: Just be cool.
Dr. Shenton: We can do that,
James Hunn: Take care.
Dr. Shenton: we can do that.
James Hunn: Take care y’know.
Dr.Shenton: yeah, any final questions that have come up?
Ayiana: Just need to reiterate, uhm –
James Hunn: I just enjoy talking to y’all, I uh, I talk a lot y’know. I hope I’ve helped you and told you something that you need to know that’ll carry with you and stay with you. You run into something that reminds you of me just think of what I said and what I’ve done and uh – how I may have helped you. Thank you, appreciate y’all inviting me to do this.
Ayiana: Of course.
Dr. Shenton: Thank you so much
Connor: Thank you so much.
Kyle: Thank you
Trevor: Thank you