Rosetta Ford

"I’m just telling you what I’m telling you from my heart and from what I know."

Transcript

Jeffrey Shenton: Ok, my name is Jeff Shenton and I’m the instructor for Anthropology 389: Lived Histories at Centre College. I’ll be responsible for recording this interview. This is an interview with Ms. Rosetta Ford. This interview is taking place on January 25th, 2021. The interview is being conducted by telephone and recorded over a Zoom call. The interview is scheduled to last approximately one hour. It will consist of an oral history that covers Ms. Ford’s life and career, focusing on experiences in Danville and Boyle County and especially on the Urban Renewal period in Danville and its effects on the local community. Now I’d like each of the interviewers to introduce themselves please. Please give your name, your age, your year at Centre, and where you’re from.

Will Reynolds: I’m Will Reynolds. I’m 18. I’m a freshman and I’m from Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Rosetta Ford: Thank you.

Clayton Stanbery: Clayton Stanbery. I’m 18 as well. I’m from Louisville, Kentucky. I’m a freshman at Centre.

RF: Thank you.

Shelby Smith: My name’s Shelby Smith. I’m 18. I’m a freshman at Centre and I am from Columbia, Kentucky.

RF: Thank you very much.

Emmy Greene: Hello, Ms. Ford. My name is Emmy Greene. I’m 20 years old and this is my second year at Centre College, but I’m originally from Sandy Hook, Kentucky.

RF: Thank you so very much.

JS: Finally, I’d like Ms. Ford to introduce herself. Could you please give your full name, your age, and where you currently reside?

RF: I am Mrs. Rosetta F. Ford. F–O–R–D. I’m be seventy-five-- ninety-five-- this year; I’m ninety-four, and I’ve lived here in Danville all my life in the same residence.

JS: Great. And now we'll go ahead and begin the interview. Thank you.

RF: Thank you.

EG: Ms. Ford, I would like to just start off this interview with asking you if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself.

RF: Well, I am-- live in Danville, Kentucky. Been here all my life. Was borned in Boyle County. And I have been married but divorced. I have four children that I raised and sent ‘em all to college, and three of my sons was in Vietnam at the same time my daughter was in Paducah schools, down in Paducah, Kentucky. And we have some good days and some bad days, but I’m happy to be here to speak to you all because I know where my help comes from the Lord and I know who I am. I know I don’t have much but the Lord will take care and all my good days has outweighed every bad day that I had in my life and I’m not gonna complain because I know that there’s someone out there that’s in worse shape than I am in. And I know the Lord wants us to love, forgive, and no matter what you look like, what you got, they-- we all created by God. And I know that He wants us to love, forgive, forget, and to help somebody in this world-- don’t care who it is, don’t care what color it is, don’t care what church they belong to-- we all God’s children.

CS: So, Ms. Ford, you mentioned that you’ve lived in Danville your entire life. Can you give us a little bit of a background of what it was like to grow up in Danville?

RF: Yes, I will. Well, we didn’t have nothin’ much but we were happy--happy people, happy community. [I’m] still in the same community, and we helped one another. Everybody had a garden of fruit trees, and we was all just together as neighbors and we still are. I’m the oldest one of my family and in my church that’s living and still on the same street. But, uh, and they helped– they had gardens, hogs, pigs, cows, and all that stuff, and we helped one another. And that’s the way that we felt that we was supposed to do. And if mama and daddy was at work and we did something wrong, the community had the opportunity to whip us and then we got a whippin’ at home, when they got home. But, uh, we had a good life. We didn’t have much, but the Lord saw us through. My dad made $6 a week and, uh,  there was three of us girls. So he said-- He asked the-- He worked in flowers; he loved flowers. And he said he would, uh, ask this lady back over here behind Milly’s field, it was the richest woman in town, for a raise. He was makin’ $6 a week back then, and he said, “Oh, Mr. Faulkner, I just can’t afford it because I am a poor widow woman.” And sittin’ over there with more money than they had in the bank. So we would go to town, walk to town. They had no cars, no telephones, no nothin’. Not even a radio. So anyway, we went to, we would walk to, A & P’s and Kroger’s, which was on Main Street in Danville. He was still that sack up but that $6 didn’t have a whole lot of change to bring back home. On the weekends we would go down to the train station to see who was getting off and who was going and we enjoyed that. And when they had a dollar or quarter round trip, Momma Georgie would take us to Cincinnati to stay all day and visit her father, brother, and her aunt Fannie. And so we just-- we enjoyed that. And my momma, she was a baseball pitcher for the ladies here in Fairview, and my daddy was pitcher for the men’s. And, uh, so we just enjoyed ourselves. I said a loving family. A praying family. And we just loved everybody-- that’s what the Lord wants us to do. We know he don’t care, he made us all the color we are, and so I know what he knows what he knows. So anyway, I don’t have no prejudice against nobody because there wasn’t nobody on this Earth but the Adam and Eve, and so I say anybody, “We all kin.” So that’s that part. So… anything else? [to someone else: Am I’m doing all right?] Hello?

CS: So you mentioned a lot about your family, and your sisters and your father. What kind of impact did they have on you and your childhood?

RF: They were kind, and they… My mother, she worked out on Maple Avenue for some lady named Ms. Pepper. Thirty-five cents an hour: breakfast, dinner, and supper. And then she worked at the Gilcher Hotel for many years until she retired. And, uh, she was, uh, borned in Lincoln County what they called Hubbard, and my dad was in Lincoln County which was outside of Stanford and Logantown. That’s where they-- and they-- and we were church-going people, even though we had to walk wherever we went. This was a snow, sleet, hot, cold, hail, or what. We walked to Sunday School, church, afternoon service, BTU [Baptist Training Union], and night service. [someone speaking in background] And they-- and my parents, they really helped us and they treated us like, just their children. It’s not like the children are today. If you whip your child today you’ll go to jail. But with mine, was that we, we was-- because what was going on when I was a mother to these children, I would take them to the courthouse if I had to and leave them there with them and let them do what they wanted to do, because it’s not right for somebody to tell nobody not to whip our-- we got whippings with daddy’s razor strip, and we come through. We are all right. We are Christian people here. We just love everybody, and we just go everybody. I have so many friends this day and time that some of them I don’t even know, that sends birthday cards, Christmas cards, any kind of card.

And my nephew who’s a preacher, he said, “Aunt Rose,” said, “Your calling is sending cards and talking to people on the phone and I just called to see how they doing.” And one young lady told me, said, “Ms. Rosetta,” said, “you ought to be calling us instead you calling us to see how we doing.” But my mother, she was a good— and could cook out this world. And daddy, he would go across the field and get a rabbit for Thanksgiving, and she would be-- already canned some beans and we would have green beans and she made blackberry cobbler out this world. And then she would make some sauce and pour it over and put it back in the stove. And we would make dumplings with the rest. Honey, we was eating good in the neighborhood even though we didn’t have nothin’ [laughter in background]. Well we had a-- we had a good life. We had to walk everywhere we went. And they used to have revivals at church for two weeks and me and my daddy, we went every night. Walked from Lebanon Pike to Second Street, and it was so cold it would freeze anybody, and I have gotten frost bit knees and toes and things walking from here to work. And I worked at Cinderella Dress Shop on Main Street for eighteen years, seventy-five cents an hour, and raised my children and I even told I had a nerve enough to go somewhere and buy a car-- but I paid for it! I sure did. So I’d say the Lord has been good to me and he’ll do the same for anybody that gives him a chance, he will do the same that he’s done for me, and I have so– as I’ve said, I have so many people that call me and sends letters to me, even from Chicago, California, and everywhere. And one friend of mine said, “Momma Rose,” said “everybody loves you,” said, “even the children loves you.” And I said— Even my ex-daughter-in-laws, they love it, they call me, and I just said I wonder why that is. But I said, you know, it’s the Lord. And they call me and talk to me all the time. Send Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything. I am so proud that I know the Lord, because I couldn’t have done it by myself.

SS: Ms. Ford, your faith seems to be very important to you. Have you always went to church?

RF: Yes, I have. Sunday school church, afternoon church, BTU, programs in the afternoon, whatever they had, I, um, worked with children at BTU, and I sang in the choir at the church, and I sang in the mixed choir, and I, uh, just helped anywhere. And I-- and I pray in church too. The pastor called on, “Ms. Ford,” and then different ones will have different things. “Ms. Rosetta, will you pray?” I said, “Oh, get somebody else.” They said, “Oh we want you.” So, I, uh, I’m known for everybody in Danville, and I just love my church even though we can’t go to it now. And as I said I’m 94 years old, be 95 this year. I told them, “dead or alive I’ll be 95,” and if I live five more years I’ll be a hundred. So I’m just happy as I can be to talk to you all to tell you about my life and my children. But I’m proud of them, and my son-- oldest son called me and told me, “Momma, did you know that you wasn’t supposed to have three sons in the war at the same time?” I said, “No.” I said, “They just wanted men. They didn’t care whether any of y’all—.” But they all came back home safe, and my daughter too. She went down to Paducah to be a secretary. And I’m proud of ‘em, because I didn’t have much but I did send them to school. Does any of this stuff make any sense to you all?”

EG: “Yes it does, thank you so much for sharing so much of your story so far Ms. Ford.”

RF: “Thank you.”

EG: “I was curious where did you grow up in your community? What was the name of it and what was it like?

RF: “Uh, I’m still on the same street, Fairview, uh, and uh we didn’t have any lights or water or anything out here. And there was rocks in the road and I stumped my toe so many times honey, I remember where those rocks were. And then we had to go, we-- the girls, we didn’t have no brothers, we had to go out and cut kindling and coal, bring in the coal. Take the ashes out the stove and throw them out, and we’d go to bed, and when we woke up in the morning, honey, you put your foot on that linoleum rug-- make you want to get back in bed. [To someone else: I’m doing all right] . . . Yes. Well people-- Everybody was nice. We always went to church on Town Street and we would go to church. We didn’t belong down there, but we went there and they would let us participate in all the activities. They would let us sing and make up a choir-- sing in a choir, go to Sunday school down there. And we just enjoyed out here, this was, living out--. And I said I would never live nowhere but here on this street. There’s about seven houses out here and I’ve been out here all my 94 years.”

CS: So Ms. Ford you said that you’ve lived in that same area your entire life?

RF: Yes, sir.

CS: How have you seen that particular community change over your lifetime?

RF: “Well, it- it’s changed. Over when they integrated and everything, wasn’t but three or four houses back here and now we have uh, eight-- about eight houses on this street. And uh, all-all-everybody was Black. This was a Black community all over and sometimes I sit here and think about everybody that lived out here when- before urban renewal came in. And all the streets and all the people, I know which street they lived on, what the names were, and everything. So I’ve been out here ninety five-four years.”

WR: In what ways have you seen your community change over the years?

RF: Yes, it has changed. But back here where we live it’s still the same. Loving, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins . . . and we all just a big family around here. And uh, they all work together and they all went to school together. We walked-- as I say in the rain and everything but it-- it-- it has changed. But we still have good neighbors and everything, and everybody gets along, and that’s what we’re supposed to do. So uh, anything else you want to know?

EG: That sounds wonderful. I’m curious-- what was life like for you as a young adult?

RF: Well, sometimes it was good, and sometimes it was bad. But I said, all of my good days outweigh all my bad days I ever had in my life and I’m not complaining. What’s in the past, is in the past and I’m just looking for the future, just living in the future now, happy as I can be. Thank God I’m happy, yes I am. My children here takes care of me. My daughter she cooks my food and brings it to me. My oldest son he, uh, gives me my shots, eye medicine [someone else speaking in background] and uh . . .but uh it was-- it was-- it was good. We had on Second Street where urban renewal came in-- I know you not talking about urban renewal-- but we all we had the clubhouse, we had restaurants, we had, uh, car taxis, we had barber shops and everything that you want right here in that area on Second Street where the Constitution Square is. But somehow, the city decided that they was gonna take all the Black property and uh made it like they were- and Black people they lived on every street. Main Street, McGrorty Street [now Wilderness Road], uh, Fifth Street, Sixth Street, uh, right here across where the Centre College is, everything. And, uh, still, we still got along. . but uh that takes everything in but uh when they integrated they, my two sons, they didn’t want to go to Centre College, they didn’t want to go to Danville High School and they told the principal, at Bate, that they wanted to go to Lincoln Ridge. And he said, “You don’t want to go down there cause of- there’s a bunch of hoodlums down there,” and that’s what they used to call us back here. Across this railroad track they- y’all ain’t nothing but a bunch of hoodlums. But they were good smart children-- went to school. We’ve got lawyers, we’ve got teachers, we’ve got judges, and we’ve got some of everything that everybody else has got in this world. And we are happy and I’m proud of my Black race, and uh I’m glad that I’m a Black person. Yes, sir. . . I don’t know if I answered your question or not.”

CS: Yeah that was good, Ms. Ford, thank you. Um, you brought up urban renewal and in any way did urban renewal personally affect you?

RF: Yes it did it come back here on our street, all back here and um. . they was supposed to build houses, but they had already fixed up who they wanted to have this property back here cause uh my ex-daughter in law she wanted to buy one down in what they call Kilby Lane now where it was Middle Lane and she told him she already sold it. But yes, sold it to Mr. Kilby down on uh Lebanon Pike. He’s uh, had a business and so she didn’t get that, she wanted to live out here, but everybody that lives out here wants to stay out here. So anyway, we have a graveyard out here right across where Kilby built his son, down on Middle Lane-- which is Kilby Lane now, they changed the name after they bought it. And uh, they uh, men that was supposed to fix over the summer, they left town and we wondered where they were and they said urban renewal run out of money and they didn’t get to finish it… what they was supposed to do. So, that left us in the-- not in the hole but in the bad shape ‘cause we didn’t have any water. We had lights, no uh, we had gas, but we didn’t have any water and nothing. I don’t know who these people were that came back one time, but they came back after that and built a- a sewer line that had water and uh and all this stuff. But, uh, it-- it-- it was-- and I don’t know about other people, you might have somebody else tell you different. But uh, we lived through rough times back here, but as I said the Lord will make a way somehow. And that’s what we did-- depended on the Lord. And some people- White people - they would say, “How do you Black people make it?” We said, “Dial it down to a dollar a week.” [laughter in background] But anyways, they left and somebody else came up and they still have urban renewal here. And they bought up all the Black-- even at, uh, Constitution Square. Black people lived there. They had Federated [Women’s] Club, had a house over there where they had meetings. And everything that would belong to the Black people, they tore it-- tore it down and said they thought that Second Street was too close to Main Street. And uh, but we enjoyed what life we had-- even though we didn’t have much there, I told you. But we was strong people, young people, old people, and everybody that comes. And we one time- I know this ain’t what you asked me-- but uh we had a mayor, Eric Stephens, he didn’t even know this community was back here in Danville and he lived here all his life.

Woman in background: He didn’t know it was in the same city.

RF: He didn’t know-- I mean he didn’t know it was in the same city, he thought we was somewhere else, you know. They come back here, they said, “Boy, it’s beautiful back here,” and I said, “I know it is, that’s the reason why I ain’t going nowhere ‘til the Lord calls me.” Stay right here. And I don’t know whether I’m helping y’all out or not, but I’m just telling you what I know. [laughter in background]

EG: You absolutely are. We’re so happy to hear everything you have to tell us so far.

RF: Now what do you do with this? That’s what I wanna know.

EG: We are collecting this information and we’re going to put it on a public archive so that other students and researchers can use it in the future to learn about urban renewal in Danville and your experiences. And we’re so grateful for your help with us with this project.

RF: Well I-I thank you. You know I often wondered why they didn’t teach Black history in the schools. And uh, you know they, uh--.

[Background: Momma, that’s when they left Bate School.]

RF: Yeah that’s when they integrated here and cut Bate school ‘cause the Bate schools up there and they didn’t want to leave Mr. Bate’s name up there. We had-- they had some good Black teachers up there. But they only had, uh, two or three at Danville High School, but we had-- we had some smart teachers. Young and old. And uh, they-- and they were good to all of us and we were good and we respected them and they respected us. And if we didn’t, back then, as I say, they would tell your parents and your parents would get you, ‘cause I still got Daddy's old razor strap sitting in my bathroom that we got whippings with. But, uh, I know y’all tired of listening to me. I know you want to talk to somebody else.

EG: No, Ms. Ford you’re great to talk to. Um, thinking back at the urban renewal projects, I’m curious what your evaluation of these projects is, and what was either good or bad them?

RF: Well. . . well the house that I live in-- see they bought up property-- and I, uh-- I had-- we were living in my grandmother’s house right next to my dad and momma. And they bought it all and built me a another house. And it cost 35,000 dollars to build this house-- back then, you can’t do it now. But anyway, only thing that hurt us was when they left from here and didn’t finish the job. And that- that’s what hurt us ‘cause we still didn’t have water and every, you know, sewer lines or nothing else and everything. All we had out here where was was comin’ was the outhouse. And the Guy Best was the one that did that. He messed us up. I’d say he wanted all the Black property in Danville and they got it all. Got building stations on it. And Centre College is on some of it, different businesses, just come in and tore ‘em down and just come and closed up the streets. First Street-- and it’s Constitution Square now-- but it was a nice place ‘cause the people who had apartments lived back there. And Reverend Smith the Holiness church preacher, he used to have basket meetings in a tent on Walnut Street facing Walnut Street. And we would go… well we would go to everybody’s church because all of our family members belonged to the Catholic church, the Methodist church, the Presbyterian, the Holiness church, and Stonypoint, and Davistown, and everywhere and just went around. It was loving people back then. Yes, sir. Just get happy just talking about it. But I-- I didn’t know… I didn’t know what I was gonna say to you all, so I guess... I know the Lord is still working in me. But I said, I know I didn't know what I was going to say, and I said Lord just help me to say something… something. And He has, and I'm glad... I'm glad to be a child of God. Yes I am.

SS: All right, and Ms. Ford, what is your feeling about Centre College as an institution?

RF: Huh?

SS: How do you feel about Centre College?

RF: Well, I...it’s all right, because I've had some friends to graduate from Centre College, and everything. And I know ‘em; they've gone off and made good for themselves. But the only thing about Danville, when the Black people graduated from Purdue, they had to go out of town to get a job because no one would hire them around here. And as I said, we had judges, we had lawyers, dentists, doctors, and uh, house builders, and everything that knows about everything. Just like the Black slaves that made, built the White House. The man got mad at them, so I heard-- don’t know whether it was true or not. And they left. But they had all the brains of everything to build that White House up there in D.C. And they built that after the man took the thing away from them, but they didn’t know that they had that in they head, and they finished it up.

EG: You mentioned earlier that Centre College uses some of the land that the Black community had before urban renewal. What role did Centre College play in the overall effects of urban renewal in Danville, and what’s your evaluation of that?

RF: Well...uh...they, uh...they did all right. But what they wanted to close, what Centre College wanted to close up… uh...Walnut Street. Second Street-- Walnut Street where the college is on there. They wanted to close it up and close that street up so we couldn’t drive through there. But I didn’t like that because the only way you can get out from here is go through-- go straight main street. But they didn’t get to close the street. But I still don’t know why they wanted to close up the street right there. And that’s all I got to say about that.

CS: So, thank you Mrs. Ford. During urban renewal, how did you, like, feel about it when it started happening in Danville? Did it, like, scare you or worry you? And same. . .

RF: No it, it, didn’t scare me, but what they started talking about. They was gonna do a whole lot. And they didn’t do nothing. Oh, as I say, all the Black people lived on Main Street, on Stanford Avenue, right down there by the-- by the railroad track, where the college has some buildings, they lived there. They lived on Maple Avenue. They lived on every street that was in town. And so I guess, maybe, somebody went the seat and decided they wanted to get rid of us. I don’t know. But that's what happened. I said, Lord while we were asleep they were planning what they were gonna do, and they got it all.

EG: In general, who do you think should be held responsible for the effects of urban renewal in Danville?

RF: The city of Danville. You know, Danville is a prejudiced town. And I know that from childhood, up to now-- they still are. They’ll grin in your face and stab you in the back. I blame the city of Danville. And I’m, as I say, I'm not prejudiced. I don't mind people having things. But treat people right is what I say. Treat people like you want to be treated. Suppose somebody didn’t treat you like you wanted to be treated, like they would treat us. But, as I say, I've got so many friends out of town, in town, everywhere that--. So I must have done something right. And I'm not bragging on myself because I don't have nothing but the God in my soul.

WR: Um...do you have, or do you know anybody who left Danville as a result of urban renewal?

RF: What did you say?

WR: Do, like, have any friends or know anybody, um, who left Danville because of urban renewal?

RF: Uh...no, I-- I don't. ‘Cause as I say, I just stay back here; don't have no business but I just tend to my business and let the other people do what they want to do. But, cause, I say, if you really want something, the truth, go to the horse’s mouth that knows what's going on, and let them tell you. Don't let somebody else-- like they used to have uh, they tell me something, and they go down there and tell the next person, and when it got back to you it was a whole different story. And what you said. Well I don’t know whether you all want to put mine on this or not… [laughter in background] But I just say what I think. What I know.

WR: Going back to the topic of Danville being prejudiced, being a prejudiced town, uh, what are some, you know, other examples of Danville being like that?

RF: Well, a lot of them don't like Black people. And you know what, I'm gonna ask you a question, and you might not know. When you, White people, were born, how did they learn to call a Black person a ni***r? [Unintelligible comment in the background] Unless their parents taught ‘em. ‘Cause you know they didn’t know nothing about color. And they would have the Black people to come and babysit. And then they would have them to come and cook for them, and everything else. And still, you didn't want to be bothered with us ‘cause we was Black. [talking in background]

CS: Mrs. Ford, how did you experience segregation during your lifetime, like, whether it was in schooling systems, or a job you had, or something like that?

RF: Well, I worked at the Cinderella Dress Shop for eighteen years, 75 cents an hour, eighteen years. And then, I went to the unemployment office, and Ms. Mary Louise Gardner...I think her name was. She said, “Rosetta, what are you doing up here?” I said, “I'm looking for a job, anything you got.” She said, “Oh, Whirlpool is hiring, and the plastic place.” I said, “just sign me up for anything.” Well, I got the phone call from Whirlpool. They said, “Rosetta, can you be here at four o’clock?” I said yes, ‘cause my son worked out there, and my daughter-in-law and everything. I said, “Yes, tell Gary he got to bring me home when I got over with work there.” So anyway, I went to Whirlpool, I was fifty-four years old, and I worked there for sixteen and a half years for Whirlpool and Matsushita I retired, and I was lacking one month of being sixty-five years old when I retired. And everybody got along with me, and I got along with them, and I would just tell them what I think, and if they got mad, they just mad. ‘Cause I don’t care. I told the man a Cinderella’s, I said, “Listen, you came out on the street and asked me to come in here and work,” and I said, “But if you don't want me in here I'll go out your back door and eat grass with the snake, ‘cause I ain't got nothing.” But that's the only person I had trouble with on the job. Everywhere else I went, when I left, they hated to see me go, leave Whirlpool and Matsushita. When it was time for me to go. Because I had been away from my children for so long. And then I seen them, as I said, they went into service in Vietnam and Germany and different places. And I just give it all credit to the Lord. Now, I'm just gonna tell you like it is. He's the one who opens doors for me. And he's the one that I believe in and I know that He's gonna do what He says he's gonna do. I haven't seen Him, but I know for myself that there is a God somewhere.

EG: Can you tell us anything about segregation in downtown Danville with businesses or theaters?

RF: Yes, they had a place upstairs. We had the best place in the world upstairs to look at the movies, and the White folks was downstairs. And, uh, then they, uh, when you'd walk to town, and the White people, they would walk on the sidewalk and make us walk out on the street. And, so, it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me at all, but that's the life that they wanted to live. And I give ‘em credit for it: they made me a better woman, with better respect for the next person, even though they didn't have no more than--. Another thing, we don't have no more than anybody else. And you just learn to respect, you just listen to people. Cause I know one day I was at Whirlpool, working in the bathroom… and she said, “You know that old darkie?” And because I had worked with them. And I just come out, wash my hands and go out. And spoke to all of them. And I don't care about my color. Color ain’t got nothing to do, it's what's in your heart that counts. But we've got a lot of prejudice around here. Prejudice police, and this, that and another. Couldn’t go in the store, wouldn’t let you try on hats, wouldn’t let you try on dresses-- nothing. But, uh, when I had worked at Cinderella’s, I had more White customers than any of them in there. And I worked in receiving. And marked all the clothes in, got 'em out to the floor and everything. And then one day I was standing there at the children's department and the manager said, “I'm gonna give you commission on what you sell.” So, uh, I told them, “Ok, thank you.” So anyways, he, uh, he, uh, did, but the girl in the office that did the work, she told this other lady, and she had her to put down everything-- every customer-- that I sold. And she had her put that on too. It didn’t bother me no way, it didn’t hurt me, because I was still happy. Still normal to her. Talked to her. She rode the pickup, walked to work with me. But you know, people are terrible things-- when they want to be. And then when they want to be good they just as nice as they can be. Tell you something to your face and then they stab ya in the back. And I know one thing. I bet you all don’t wanna call me to do nothing no more. [laughter]

CS: Ms. Ford, in terms of segregation, do you think it’s, like, better or worse today than it was back then?

RF: Well, it’s a little better. . . it ain’t much but they still show they true colors. But as I say, color don’t mean nothing. The Blacks, and the Browns, and the Whites, and when the president in the past was trying to make everybody white-- kill all of the Black people. But, he can’t kill all of us! The world was made by God and not him, the people. We came here because we was Black, and if he wanted this world to be all, we’d all be White, or to all be Black, or it all be Brown. It don’t matter to me what color you are. If you need help, I’m gonna help ya. And if you all don’t wanna write what I say, it’s all right with me.

SS: Um, Mrs. Ford, how do you think life for your children or grandchildren is different compared to your life growing up?

RF: Well, they didn’t have all this dope and all this different stuff that's, uh, going on now. ‘Cause we could go to the restaurants, go to the movies, go to dances, go to school activities and things. But if, there’s so much dope and stuff and the young women, they just love them because they got money, but it don’t, I’d rather go out and get me a job somewhere and take care of myself than to depend on some man, with some drug money, to take care of me. And I just don’t-- you can’t tell ‘em nothing. Ain’t no use trying. ‘Cause they might cuss you out or tell you old fogie, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I know what I’m talking about. I know exactly. And that’s what it is today. The drug dealers, and the drugs. And they-- they’ll--they’ll-- they will take the wrap for it because they won’t turn the white man in. It don’t make no sense to me. If that’s the way they want to live, they gotta answer for it in the end. And I know I’m not a perfect person but I know what I know.

EG: How do you think that drugs came to have such an influence on the community, Mrs. Ford?

RF: Well I tell you I think the older people got the younger people strung out on it and paid them so much to sell it for them. But they got most of the money, and they ain’t got sense enough to know it. Go out here get you a decent job and make a living. And they lock you up and everything else. The white man goes if his daddy’s got plenty money and he don’t have to serve no time, and you gotta serve 25-30 years. It don’t make sense-- to me! ‘Cause I guess I’m living in the age where I don’t make sense. But I think it’s the ruin and then these girls having these babies everything and thinkin’ their mama’s and grandmama’s gonna raise em. Nooope. I told my niece one day at work, she said, “Do you keep your grandchildren?” and I said, “Yeah, but they go back home.” [pause] Yes, sir.

EG: You’ve talked a lot about different political and social issues that you’ve seen in your lifetime. Have you ever spoken out publicly about these issues in any way?

RF: Yes, I have. To some people I have spoken to and told them how I feel. And I don’t like what the mayor said about my niece. Wearing that wig and everything. She had cancer and had to wear a wig. His daddy run the Townhouse restaurant over there at George Pierce, and uh, and he just, uh, talked about the people that worked over there and said that’s where Black people supposed to be. In the restaurant. And, uh, we was supposed to be wherever we supposed to be. If they don’t want us, they don’t want us. And I don’t care if they don’t want us. I’m living for me and not for them. And I don’t like what he said about my niece; he put her down. Saying that’s where the Black people supposed to be. Working in the restaurant making his sandwiches and cooking and all that stuff. And still, they don’t like it. But they gonna eat the food you cook!

EG: That’s fascinating Mrs. Ford, thank you.

RF: Thank you so very much.

EG: What could be done today to make Danville a more equitable and inclusive community?

RF: They got a whole lot to do around here. ‘Cause as I say when I first started, there’s a lot of prejudice down here, and people, as I say, are grinning at your face and will stab you in the back. But you know, they just jealous because the Black man has got education and, as I say, we got lawyers in the family, we got deacons, and trustees, preachers, and everything-- school teachers, nurses, doctors, and all. But they don’t want the Black people to have all this stuff and they just jealous of us because the Black people are smart. That’s the way I feel. If we get somewhere, they gonna put you down. Mhmm. But if I go out here and sell me some moonshine or some something, and they get me, they gonna give me about 30 years, and they’ll let the white man go home. They gotta have a lot of change of heart in Danville. And I know it is a Republican town, and they just can’t stand not being ahead of everybody else.

CS: Mrs. Ford. . .

RF: Yes, sir.

CS: How do you think it is possible for Danville to make these changes over time?

RF: What did you say?

CS: How would it be possible for Danville to make these changes happen?

RF: Treat everybody equal, and give everybody the same pay for the work that they do. And everything that needs to change a whole lot. And it needs to change about this color stuff. It don’t make no sense to me! It makes sense to them because they don’t want the Black people to get ahead. And they need, they got a whole lot of praying things to do to themselves, so they can know that we are God’s children just like they are. And whatever else they need to do. Treat people right, like you wanna be treated. You know, don’t be calling us out of our name when we know what our name is, and stuff like that. But, uh, I’m all right because I’ve lived through all this stuff and I know all about it. And I know some of ‘em will pretend but every time I get a chance I don’t care where I am, I will talk about the Lord and what he has done for us and I know that he will do for everybody else if they let go and let God, change-- have a change of heart.

JS: All right, Mrs. Ford we’re coming up on an hour here on our call. I’m wondering if there’s anything that you think you haven’t covered in your life or your experience that you think you’d like to go on the record today? Is there anything else that you think we haven’t talked about?

RF: Well, you might not even want to put on your record of what I said. But if you don’t, it’s all right with me but I’m just telling you what I’m telling you from my heart and for what I know. And I know that things need to change and I can’t change ‘em. But I can pray on them, and everything, cause the Lord will make a way somehow. And when he makes a change, you’re gonna see a difference in a lot of people. In attitude towards life towards God. And just try to help somebody. Treat people like you want to be treated, you know? What if I treated you like a dog? You wouldn’t like me.

JS: Is there a way to make people do that, do you think? I mean I think it’s..

RF: Yes it is, yes it is. Get in touch with the Lord. That’s all I got to say about that. Because he knows us. He knows us when we was born, and he knows that this world is not our home and we have a time to leave. And you just be ready to leave. If you ain’t ready he gon’ take you anyway. And I just commend the Lord to them. That’s all I can do, and if they don’t want Him, then it’s up to them, it ain’t on me.

JS: Well, I’d like to thank you for that. Are there any other follow up questions that any follow up questions that the interviewers have? Do you wanna follow up on anything particular whether some specifics that you wanted to fill in or anything else? [Pause] All right. Well, I want to thank you personally for your time today, Ms. Ford. It was really a joy listening to you and hearing your story. And it really is meaningful for this project, so thank you so much for your time.

RF: Well, I appreciate it and I don’t know if you like what I said but I like to tell the truth. And tell you what the Lord has done for me and what he will do for anybody else.

JS: We appreciate that and we appreciate your perspective.

RF: And I thank you for letting me, uh, be in this thing, and I might see you one of these days and I might not. Who knows. But God bless ya and take care and keep up the good work.

JS: Well I sure do hope so, thank you so much. RF: You’re welcome. Have a blessed day.

JS: You too, bye-bye.