Eustatia Johnson

"But Second Street was a savior to me. It was someplace you could go and be with your own people that was the same as you."

Parts of this transcript were autogenerated and there may be errors.

Lorelei Watson 0:09 Okay, my name is Lorelei Watson.

Kanbe Mao 0:12 And this is Kanbe Mao

Lorelei Watson 0:14 and today we will be interviewing Eustacia Johnson. I am here with Dr. Jeffrey Shenton, Mr. Charles Gray and Mr. Michael Hughes. Today is April 26th. We are recording this interview in Danville, Boyle County, African American Historical Society. And today, we will be discussing Eustacia's experiences while living in Danville during the second half of the 20th century.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 0:39 So Mr. Hughes asked us, if you would just tell us about this picture, the first question what's happening in this picture right here? And can you tell us about it?

Eustatia Johnson 0:50 That's when I opened my barber shop, in 1987. Right here on second - in the basement, actually. So I was a nurse. And I went to Barber College while I was working for VA as a nurse. So I got my license and went in business for myself.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 1:15 Tell us a little bit about what it was like to run a barber shop and any experiences that you can remember that stuck out to you.

Unknown Speaker 1:22 No, you just get the money when you can [laughs]. I mean, it's, it's hard at first, it takes like three to five years to get business off the ground, you gotta be able to handle the expenses until you can make ends meet, because you got a lot of overhead. You got rent, lights, gas, you know, and all that water. And then you got have surprise. I mean, I just jumped down a while in just just to be...I was just tired working for everybody else. I needed a break. So I thought I'd try for myself. So I did that for 34 years.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 2:01
And who are your clients that you were serving?

Unknown Speaker 2:06 They were all from Danville running X territory like Stanford, Lancaster Harrisburg. I had a few white customers as well. And they were from the same territory right around Danville and Lancaster. Like I said, I'm from Lexington.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 2:24 Did you have any specialties that you were known for?

Eustacia Johnson 2:28 Not really, I was just good at growing hair. They say [laughs]. That's what the women said. Because the man got all theirs cut off so it didnt matter to them long as you satisfied the wife you okay. I mean, men don't really care. They just don't want go home and the wife say: "Where'd you get that haircut?" If you satisfy her, you always have that customer.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 2:53 And what happened to the business after 34 years?

Eustacia Johnson 2:57 I retired in 2018. And his [gestures to one of the men in the room] son-in-law has the shop now. So I do a little bit here and there. Still do a little nursing on the side. I got a few customers that go to they house, go nursing homes and X still do their hair. I mean, I'm retired but I'm not...I still do a little work.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 3:28 Anything else that you'd like to say about your your time employed here on Second Street and any other?

Eustacia Johnson 3:33 No, I liked it. It was it was nice to be your own boss. I thought that was really a better way to go. I wish that did if I did it. But I really liked it. And it's hard to you know, stay in business for that long really, because you got a lot of competition. You gotta have loyal customers. That's the name of the game. So all mine was dying off. And after 32 years, I've retired anyway, so I just resigned, retired.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 4:06 What's the secret to having loyal customers?

Eustacia Johnson 4:10 They like your work. They like you. You honest? And you do a good job. They'll follow you.

Kanbe Mao 4:23 Um, so I kind of wanted to ask you about where did you grow up? And if you grew up in Danville, and if not where? What neighborhood did you grow up in?

Eustacia Johnson 4:30 I grew up in Danville in the ghetto. Oh, um, Lexington and Seventh Street on Lexington Street. Now it's projects for the elderly. It's about five or six, seven right there on the corner. And so I live in this big white house. That actually it was one story, but they made it three, the top level had one room, no bathroom. And the second level was pretty decent, but it didn't have a bathroom in it. But we lived -- I called it "the dungeon" -- in the basement, like they just took the basement and make two rooms out of it. There was no bathroom. We all had to go to the outhouse. And so Sears and Roebuck was our toilet paper. Well, it's true. And the one thing I didn't like that I hated being poor, I just hated being poor. I didn't like it at all. I thought there's got to be a better way out of here, you know, than just somebody who just gave up, got drunk and did nothing. But thank God, I climbed out, you know, took a lot of hard work. I worked for 57 cents an hour. $18 a week. And I thought I was rich. When I started working for the doctor. I got $80 a week, I was rich then that was a lot of money to me at the time. But I did a lot of babysitting, and lots of cleaning. And basically, in white homes, of course, we have no homes to clean. And so I just got better. So when I was 19. I said, I'm coming outta' the ghetto. That's what I said. And that's what I did. I worked hard. I worked two or three jobs. But it wasn't easy, but you can do it.

Lorelei Watson 6:51 Yeah. You mentioned that you didn't want to work for other people anymore. Could you tell us a little bit more about that.

Eustacia Johnson 6:59 I don't get along well with taking orders. I really don't. You know, I don't know why, but I just don't. And so I worked as long as I could in nursing. And while I was in nursing school, I went to Barber College, my uncle died and left me $10,000 in 1985. So I thought, well, what am I gone do with this money, but I went to Hawaii with 5000 and the other 5000 I went to Barber College. So that's how I got to be my own boss. I thought about it for years, I just didn't know which way to go with X with me. And I had a kid in college so...

Kanbe Mao 7:49 um, so you mentioned be from the ghetto, which I can relate to a lot, because I come from Boston. And I don't come from like the best neighborhood like, you know, there's a lot of gangs, drug dealing things of that nature. But I wanted to ask you like, do you think the ghetto taught you things that you like, took into your like life in the future? And do you think like, do you appreciate it looking back? Because I know it might have been rough at that time. But do you ever like think back at those moments and be like, you know, I appreciate and I learn like stuff from it. Even though it wasn't like the best situation.

Eustacia Johnson 8:17 I wouldn't change. I grew up for nothing. Because if I didn't change it, then I wouldn't be the person I am now. And I liked myself. And if I changed it, I might not...but it was a good experience. I just hated it.

Lorelei Watson 8:41 What were some of the things that you hated if you don't mind going into that?

Eustacia Johnson 8:45 I hated going outside at two, three o'clock in the morning into the bathroom and it was cold stone ground. I hate going outside pumping water to grab a drink. I heated a tin tub because we didn't have any way take a bath. I hated all of it. Just all of it. Everything that went with it I hated.

Lorelei Watson 9:06 What about some of the other people in the community. Was there still like a sense of community there? Or was that kind of absent?

Eustacia Johnson 9:12 No, it was a same community. Everybody was poor, you know, but at first, when I started getting a little older, maybe six or seven, I thought that all white people were rich, and that all black people were poor. That's how about when I was at young. But everybody lived the same life if you were black. You lived in the ghetto. It's just the way it was. So you had to bring yourself out of it. And then I think it was in 64 Maybe urban renewal came through and they tow down all of the ghetto houses. They bought up all the black land. Even though they were getting houses. They tow them down and built ­the only difference I saw is you had a bathroom. They built a bath. They built the laundry room in your kitchen. With no door. No way to shut it. You walked in your kitchen there's a big washer and dryer. You did have running water in a toilet. So I bought one of those houses in. 80, no, 73 When I got my nursing license in 71. I bought the first house, there was a building on Louis Street for $10,000.
Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 10:44 And that was one of the houses that they had replaced with urban renewal?

Eustacia Johnson 10:54 Mhm.

Kanbe Mao 11:07 Um, so you mentioned how when urban renewal happened, like they took down a lot of houses, but you were able to buy a house on Louis street. But I was just wondering for the rest of community where other people like, I'm especially part of like the black community, were they able to buy houses as well? Or did they have to, like move out because they were forced to move out. Since the other houses were destroyed.

Eustacia Johnson 11:27 Some of them they had land was able to buy them. But they still weren't up-to-date houses, in my opinion. But it was better than what we had.

Kanbe Mao 11:40 And how was like the Danville community, like changed over the years, in your opinion, because I know you've been here for a while and probably seen a lot of different changes. But how has it changed and like your perspective..?

Eustacia Johnson 11:50 Danville. Where you can walk in the front door of a restaurant, and sit down and eat, you don't have to go to the back door and have it handed out to you. You can go into banks. There's just everything that we can do now that y'all were doing, your parents were doing years ago that we couldn't do. We couldn't go in the drugstores back in my day we had drugstores and sit down. You stood at the end of the line, ask for what you want it, they'd hand it to you and at the door. And the jobs are better - they not the best, but they better. And I think more and more black kids finished high school and went to college. But once they got an education, they got away from here. Because it seemed like to me, the white people thought, No, this is just my opinion. If I bought a house, they were like mad at me and afraid I was gonna they were gonna lose their house because I bought a house. I think it's stupid. But it's a lot of feelings going on like that. In white people's...it's worse if they prejudiced. There's still a lot of prejudice here, right here.

Lorelei Watson 13:09
Did you ever have like a personal experience with someone like maybe in your neighborhood who kind of maybe said something to you of that nature?

Eustacia Johnson 13:18 Yeah, they said it all the time. We'd go by - we walked to Bate School for wherever we lived in this town we weren't, we didn't have buses. So they'd holler the n-word out while we're walking down Main Street. And we couldn't do a thing about that. But that's where it was. And it was all the time wouldn't have been, you know, just today. It just happened. Like if you were black, and you were born and raised in Danville, and probably everywhere else, until the 60s You had no respect from the white people, you got no respect. And all the rules were made for us. Not them. If you want to buy a house, you better have all your T's crossed and all your I's dotted or you wouldn't get it. That's how they kept a lot of blacks from property. And it's still the same. There's not a lot of black people that live in a subdivision. Not a lot.

Lorelei Watson 14:23 was there when you first started your barbershop was there any difficulty on that front and like trying to like get it established because of that?
Eustacia Johnson 14:32 No, because the Henson's own the property and I knew them from a long time back so he made me shop in the basement. And he didn't charge me any - the rent I paid was $150 and I paid the gas bill he paid the water bill and so I stayed down there five years, and then I moved up on third. I stayed over there about 10 years maybe. And then I came back full circle in the same building, but upstairs, because the guy, X, he owned a record shop. And he retired. So I rented that from the same people - Henson's. Yep.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 15:20 This is Evan Hanson. What was your relationship with that family? How did you cultivate that relationship?

Eustacia Johnson 15:27 Okay, when I worked as a nurse, I worked for the comprehensive care center in the Psych department. I was a psych nurse and didn't do that other stuff. I didn't really like it. But anyways, he has, well, you know, he has the Playhouse out there. So we have a train that came and went. So when he had his place, I would help out. At ComCare, we had a band, where we picked up all the clients. So I would take our band, and go to the train station, and bring the people back and forth from the train station to the Playhouse. So that's how I got to know them. And then when some of my patients got able to move out on they own from Eastern State Hospital, they would rent me houses for them to be put there. And then I would take his rent for him at the hotel. I would take that out for him every week. So when I need the favor, He just returned it. I'm not saying that I might not that I couldn't have got something somewhere else. I don't know that. But I just know that I did with him. And I was grateful for it, I still like Miss Henson. She's alright. If she was prejudiced, she ain't show it that way, or she didn't act like she was prejudiced at all.

Kanbe Mao 17:05 Um, so you describe like, a lot of like, the ways Danville was back then and how, like, you know, there was a lot of racism and things like that. But I wanted to ask, like, when did you notice? Like, more like integration started happening? And when did you notice like people started becoming more accepting of like, black people and people were like, less racist and stuff likevdid it took a while for that to happen, or--.

Eustacia Johnson 17:27 Sure, and just to be honest with you, most of it was hidden anyway. You know, it really was. And I think when the Trump era came, the hate and the prejudice and all that just came back. So to me, they were hiding it very well. They did very well. That's what I think.

Charles Grey 17:49 Amen

Eustacia Johnson 17:55 That's exactly what I said.

Mr. Hughes 18:03 Amen again.

Eustacia Johnson 18:03 You have to be black. To understand. That's all I can tell you. You know, if you're white. You really, really, really don't understand what I'm telling you. If you you have to live it. To know what I mean. We lived it right here.

Kanbe Mao 18:25 Yeah, I agree. Like, you know, especially like work. I'm from Boston. And so coming here, like, you know, I really didn't like experience racism really, until I came here. Like I was just walking in with like a couple of my friends, and we were all like colored, you know, and we were just going to the basketball court and like a car drive drives by us and like, calls us the n word and yells monkey sounds and I'm like, that's like the first time like I've ever experienced something like that, because I've always been around other people of color. And so yeah, it's kind of crazy how things that you were telling us from way back then are still happening, now. Of course, it's like less, but it's still around, which is like what matters. That's crazy.

Eustacia Johnson 19:00 Yep, it is. I don't - I don't understand it today. It's just sometimes I think the Black race is cursed. I mean, I just think that. Nobody told me that. I just think we cursed for several reasons. Lots of reasons. Because nothing's changed, really. You know, it's just hidden. And you can do okay. I had a white buddy. I'll say I thought she was a friend. But now I know she was my buddy, not my friend. We worked at ComCare together. She was a licensed social worker, and I was a nurse there. And she was going in business for herself. So I did all her work for her where she could get her business going. And so I noticed that she lived on the lake and I lived down the street and I had one more room than she did. This is the house I'm talking about urban renewal build. So she goes and builds another room on her lake house, and I never thought much about it. But then when I moved from there and moved where I live now, she had nothing else to do with me. Nothing. It was the end of that. As long as you are beneath the white race, if you're beneath - hey, you're good. And sometimes you might be alright if you equal but don't get above. That's it. But if you do, they don't want nothing else to do with you. It's almost like we poison, you know, like I said, you have to be black and raised black to really get what I'm telling you. It was terrible. It's still terrible, but I'm older now and I can handle it because I know where they’re coming from. So I just mind my own business. I don't go anywhere, do anything because they don't really want you there. They invite you there, but they don't really want you there. I stay away from them—as much as I can.

Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 21:49 Were you involved in were you involved in a church community growing up?

Eustacia Johnson 21:53 Church community? Yeah, when I was a little girl, I went to Sunday school and church at First Baptist down here. All black church, still is.
Dr. Jeffrey Shenton 22:04 What was the church community like? Can you paint us a picture of what that of how that was important to you? Or what you did in the church community?

Eustacia Johnson 22:12
Well, sometimes, and sometimes not, you know, sometimes we our worst enemies sometimes. Sometimes we act like white people against all people is what I'm trying to say. So it just depends on who you are.

Kanbe Mao 22:44 I also wanted to ask you about like your family and friends like how was like your childhood? Like, did you like have a lot of like siblings or like, you know, well, you're raised by your parents or you know how was like that growing up?

Eustacia Johnson 22:57 My mother died when I was two so I don't even remember her. So I had two sisters. And my dad died. He got sick when I was eight, he became an epileptic. And at the time, we didn't have phenobarbital* and God it was awful - scared me because I was eight years old. You know, [inaudible]. But anyways, my sister's - one had four kids the other had five. Their husband wasn't worth fifteen cents, so they couldn't help me because they couldn't help themselves. Sometimes I go to work and run errands and stuff and buy her…their kids milk. Like so they could eat at least. I've been hungry. I got—I was so hungry one time, I went to emergency room because somewhere I found a can of peas and I don't know where. That's a block. I can't remember where I got them peas, but I ate too many of them and got sick. And I had to go to the emergency room. And the doctor said that I had stretched my stomach too far because it shrunk by not eating for the last three four days. So I stay in the hospital for about a week they spoon fed me.

Charles Grey 24:22 How old were you when that happened?

Eustacia Johnson 24:29 Oh seven maybe. Obviously. And do you remember the time I came to school barefooted? Yeah, there was a food station across the street from Bate. So, I didn't have any shoes. So, I found these men's tennis shoes. Well, they were way too big but I put my feet in them. And walked to Bate, and then over across that street was this food station. So, I go and there was snow on the ground. I go in there and all this trash out here and put my shoes on the bottom and put the paper back over the top of the shoes because I intended to come back, get my shoes so I can get back home. I walk back barefooted. That's how I got some help something like the Red Cross. And then when I went back to school the next day, the back of the room was just full of boxes with clothes and shoes, up to the ceiling where other kids went home and told their parents and they sent clothes to me. And then the Red Cross took me to get an outfit. Like they had pants coat, the work shoes, socks. I've been there and done that [laughs] but you survive. I'm a survivor. Got to be a survivor to survive. Especially in this town, and especially if you're black. That's the main thing. If you black. Why our race is cursed, I do not know. But, it is. Just learn to send your kid somewhere and get them an education so they don't have to go through what you went through. Like my daughter was born in ’64, so she skipped the ghetto side by the time she was born. I had a good job. I was a nurse. I was working too. She missed all of that, thank God. But a lot of us had to live in it.

Lorelei Watson 26:51 You mentioned you had a child when you were in school, right? Not in—You didn’t have a child?

Eustacia Johnson 26:57 Not when I was in school.

Lorelei Watson 26:58 It was, but you were, so you were working as a nurse, and that was when you had your first kid?

Eustacia Johnson 27:03 Yeah she was adopted.

Lorelei Watson 27:04 OK.

Eustacia Johnson 27:05 Yeah, she actually was my great niece. And her mother died at 19. So, she was illegitimate, so somebody had to do something. So, I was married at that time, so we adopted her and raised her from the time she was two. And, she's 57 now. And I worked at the [inaudible] office because we were divorced when she was nine. So, I worked two or three jobs, [inaudible]. But, I didn't want her to grow up like I did. She needed to have some background so she could get out there and get a job and do well.

Kanbe Mao 27:55 I really that really relate to that a lot because my dad he was a single dad and he had to raise three of us, but what were like the personal struggles for you. Being a single mother 'cause I know it must have been really tough, especially being like a black woman having to raise like a child or by yourself. Like you know, what were some of those things that you dealt with being a single mom?

Eustacia Johnson 28:14 Say again.

Kanbe Mao 28:15 So like, I know being a single parent is like really difficult, but like what were some of those like struggles that you dealt with being a single mom? Or also, what are things that you learned from it?

Eustacia Johnson 28:25 Well I learned that you gotta work hard if you don't want your kid to grow up like you did, you know. So like I know I worked three jobs at the time when she was going to school. And her dad was a disabled veteran, so when she got ready for college, her tuition was paid for five years, so that was luck there—you know. But, I worked three jobs and let one of my nieces move in with me so I'd have a babysitter, 'cause I worked all the time. But it was a lot of struggle, you know. You can imagine the single mom you know–a black mom at that–trying to get your kid through college and all that. But I made it. Yeah. You just have to be strong and you can't give up. You have to fight every step of the way. For wherever you get, if you black, you fought for it. Didn't nobody give it to you. No way.

Lorelei Watson 00:29:27 When you were growing up, were there any role models in your life that kind of inspired you later on?

Eustacia Johnson 00:29:36 Well, any role models to everybody was like me. I didn't see any. If I was struggling and trying to get through doing the best they could for their kids, you know. And everybody had a bunch of kids and it was too many. My sisters had too many. They couldn't help me. You know, they just had too many, too many problems, too many marital problems and I always say I'd never get married and never have children. And I lied. 'cause I did both. But anyway, I didn't have kids. I raised, you know, I adopted my niece. But I was married twice. But, I just live today. I'll be 80 in October. So, I just keep on moving.

Charles Grey 00:30:33 I'll be 80 in August.

Eustacia Johnson 00:30:35 You will? You older than me? I can’t believe it, Charles. You older than me, man? [inaudible] You got some water in here? You got any water in here? They talk me to death.

Kanbe Mao 00:31:05
But no, like I respect you a lot, you know what I mean? Like like I said, like I come from like the ghetto too, and I know how it is. Like, I remember there was like days where like I didn't have food on the table like I couldn't walk to school 'cause I was worried about, you know, the drug dealers robbing me for some money like it was a lot, and not a lot of people–like you said–are able to understand that completely unless they live in it, like you know they can like like they can really not relate, but they can try to understand, but they won't ever fully, so, you know, a lot of respect to you for you know, being a single mom, being a black single mom, like doing everything that you did. Like, you worked so hard, and you deserve to relax.

Eustacia Johnson 00:31:39 Eighty years. But, I made it.

Kanbe Mao 00:31:48 You made it.

Eustacia Johnson 00:31:54 I think it would have… It might have been a little bit different–not a lot different–if I had had parents, or maybe they would help. What do you think Charles?

Charles Grey 00:32:02 Yeah, Oh yeah, definitely. I've been knowing you a long time. But…and I know you had it rough. But, I didn't know you had this rough. I didn't know.

Eustacia Johnson 00:32:18 You don’t know until you ask

Charles Grey 00:32:19 I didn't know.

Eustacia Johnson 00:32:22 That's one thing—I just don't—I don't talk about it, unless somebody asked me about it. And I'm not ashamed of it, and like I said, if I had to go back, I would do the same thing over. Because, If I went another way, like I said, I might not like myself. But I like and respect myself the way I am. I like me, I don't care if nobody else don’t.

Charles Grey 00:32:49 But I just want to say this if, if I may. I grew up with her. And I knew she had it a lot harder than I did. But, you have to watch—judging people—If you don't know where they came from. You might see some things, but you don't need to be judging them if you don't know where they're coming from, right? And we do that. We do that and I am so thankful, Eustacia.

Eustacia Johnson 00:33:24 Yes we do.

Charles Grey 00:33:27 I'm gonna call you Eustacia for this opportunity. 'cause I've been knowing you and I knew you had a hard time. Yeah, I knew, I know, I know. And I always felt less for what I had. We didn't have nothing either. But it wasn’t like her.

Eustacia Johnson 00:33:45 Nope, it was rough.

Charles Grey 00:33:47 You wasn’t mad at Francis? Say you were mad, at Francis, we all the same age, but she had it so hard that she was an adult when I was. A little boy. That's a fact. I always thought she was older than what she is. And she was an adult.

Eustacia Johnson 00:34:11 Had to be.

Charles Grey 00:34:13 In mind, in mind. And I was just a child. And I'm older than her. That's what life will do for you. You can't, you just cannot judge people if you don't know what you’re talking about.

Eustacia Johnson 00:34:30 That's right.

Charles Grey 00:34:31 That's all I wanted to say.

Michael Hughes 00:34:35 I know me and you talked—collaborated a lot on 2nd St. I want to discuss some of your—what you remember about 2nd St and, you know, some of the places that was important for you to hang out and or go—whatever. Just some of the things you remember socially.

Eustacia Johnson 00:35:00
Oh, I was hanging out on 2nd St at 12, man. Y'all was home asleep. I was. They let me in too. They let me into the restaurants and everything.

Charles Grey 00:35:10 I know.

Eustacia Johnson 00:35:17 I wasn’t but twelve but I guess I acted a hundred. But Second Street was a savior to me. It was someplace you could go and be with your own people that was the same as you. And sometimes, as ever go again about Blacks judging, I would go to church with some of the older ladies who have their little minx stoles and stuff on. And they would beat me across the street to the restaurant and got drunk in the cab–would have take them home. But I was the one they talked about. And so yeah it was. I really didn't have any friends because the parents would say don’t fool with her. Don’t fool with her. She's this. She's that. Don't don't fool with her. So I never even owned a doll. Never had a doll in my life. Never did. I was too busy working. Worrying about a doll, never had time for that. But yeah, but Second Street was where I needed to be at the time it was there. It was a savior for a lot of people, really. It's some place you could go hang out and be with people that you knew that was the same as you, and they really didn't judge you because everybody was the same, at least they shouldn't have, but some did, yeah, but I didn’t care. I never have cared what nobody else thought about me. She ain't put no biscuits on my table. I don’t need you.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:37:09 Can you paint us a picture of what it was like to be on 2nd St in those days? What kinds of things did you do? What kinds of people were you around? What did you—what was going on?

Eustacia Johnson 00:37:18 Well, it was restaurants on both side of the street and then I went down in the bottom there was two more nightclubs, and we all went there to party. That's where we partied. And some of the guys— that's how they made their living. They were bootleggers, because it was dry. The town was, you know, so if you wanted liquor, you get it from the bootlegger. $2.00 for half a pint I think. And everybody, I would say, was equal except for the bootleggers, and I thought they had a little money. So I would hang with them. Well I’m just being honest, 'cause that's what they did. They had money, you know, so then we will go to Lebanon after we got finished here. Get in the car, car load of us would go over to Lebanon. It was wet down there and they had restaurants and bootleg joints, and that's where you saw all of the people Bobby Blue Bland, Tina Turner.

Charles Grey 00:38:26 Tina Turner

Eustacia Johnson 00:38:29 Ray Charles yeah Otis Redding yeah. That's before they made it really big, and they called it the chip in circuit, I think that’s what they called it. So we would leave Danville and head to Lebanon. Yeah, but without 2nd St, I don't know where a lot of us would have been. ‘Cause there was just some place that we could go and be yourself. And nobody could judge you because everybody was doing same thing. We was all having a good time, partying, drunk and just having a good time. That’s the truth. That's what we did.

Michael Hughes 00:39:09 It’s what we had. I said it's what we had.

Eustacia Johnson 00:39:12 Yes, it's all we had. That's all we had.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:39:18 You want to talk a little bit about the process of urban renewal on 2nd St and what that what that time was like in in your life and what what happened?

Eustacia Johnson 00:39:25 They just came through one day and tore everything down and took it. It didn't help us at all. They just tore it out and. That's all we really had, and they took it. And when we integrated, it wasn't so good either. It took a minute, you know, for people to get into it and all that. But, I don't really think it's what we wanted. I think we wanted it to be separate but equal. That was my idea of integration. Just let us have our towns and houses and y'all go on, ya’ll don’t like us no way. But that wasn’t the way it worked out, see they just took everything. And 2nd St. Dead today because of that. They put nothing back there. Nothing for us. That was all we had. Then when that left we—I don't know what we did, what we do?

Michael Hughes 00:40:31 The culture was gone. They destroyed a whole culture. I've always said that. They always said that building. It was going to replace the building or the buildings was an eye sore, or whatever, but uh,a building’s a building. A building is brick and mortar. You know, and you can take a building and put anything in it. And it's like, you know, it's always, you know you can, always make it property— they didn't give us a chance. It's you know, there's nothing.

00:41:04 Speaker 4 Take it, tear it down.

Charles Grey 00:41:07 And one one reason why they— the buildings got like they did. You couldn't borrow no money. They wouldn't loan you no money to update it. And then the other restaurants was owned by white men. And they didn't bother to update—upgrade theml. So it became my eyesore.

Eustacia Johnson 00:41:35 Came home one day and it was gone. I said what happened?

Charles Grey 00:41:37 We couldn't go—when I first got married, I tried to buy a car for $250. We couldn't get a loan. Couldn’t get a loan. It was 1960.

Eustacia Johnson 00:41:57 Yep. They held us back. They still try. You know you gotta know what you're doing.

Charles Grey 00:42:02 We today are getting by. We don't have no extra to invest to upgrade our situation. If you getting by, you doing well.

Eustacia Johnson 00:42:13 That’s right. And you have to work like a dog to get by.

Michael Hughes 00:42:20 Yeah, it's just like the race I talk about at Centre College when they allowed the Black school to run the race, but they told them they had to start 2 feet behind. And if you want to run, you can't win the race. You have to duck under the tape. But the thing about it, the whole point, is we're still 2 steps still running two steps behind. Because of what happened. You know?

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:42:52 Hughes was just talking about about Centre College. It's another thing that we want to make sure we cover in this in this interview. What were your impressions of Centre college growing up and did you have any interaction with folks at Centre College or know anyone who worked there or what was your relationship or your perception of Centre college?

Eustacia Johnson 00:43:11 It was just the white school is all I knew. It didn’t mean nothing to me. They didn’t do nothing to me, you know? So, I didn't know anybody that worked there. So it was just— we just called it a white college and went on about our business. Just some things you just went on by.

Lorelei Watson 00:43:31 Do you think that perception still persists today?

Eustacia Johnson 00:43:34 I think it does. In a different way. It's underneath the table, not on top of it. Most of the black kids left Danville and went to college somewhere else. Only way they went to Centre is if they had a parent that worked there and they would pay their tuition. It's the only way. Now I know there's other blacks that goes there, but they're not from here. My daughter went to Western. A lot of them went to K State.

Charles Grey 00:44:14 My daughter went to Western.

Eustacia Johnson 00:44:16 Just different places away from here. We just here, and it's our home, you know. It's all we know. So, we do the best we can to survive, you know? And that's about it. We are not privileged. I had a white friend of mine told me she said oh we were talking about the race and all that. She said, oh, I just hate that hate that. I said hate what? That I'm privileged. I said well, at least you said it. Those are her words. Yeah, and it's true. So why do you get mad at it? It's the truth. Yeah. If you're not of color, you don't, you just really don't know. You really don't. It's rough.

Charles Grey 00:45:23 Are you considered of color?

Kanbe Mao 00:45:25 Yeah, so I'm. I'm part black and Asian so my mom is hot black and then my father is Cambodian and so yeah, and you know my parents. Like my dad, he came from Cambodia in 1981. He came from like the war when they were having like the genocide and all that. And then my mom, she came from Alabama. I'm so yeah, everything you're saying, like I can completely resonate too. Like you know of course like where I'm from isn't the same as Danville, but you know there are definitely some connections. And yeah, unless you like you said, you went through it growing up like you just can't like fully understand it like it's hard to.

Eustacia Johnson 00:46:02 It is, yeah.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:46:08 One other topic that we are interested in. I didn’t want to cut you off if you had something you wanted to say.

Eustacia Johnson 00:46:12 I wasn’t saying anything.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:46:14 One other topic we wanted to cover was the history of sports and sports leagues here in town. Did you have any connection to going to sports games or participating in sports growing up in Danville? Was that something that was important to you at all?

Eustacia Johnson 00:46:27 We went to the ball park. About all we had [inaudible].

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:46:31 Can you tell us about the ballpark? What was it like being there?

Eustacia Johnson 00:46:33 It was a black owned park and every weekend they had games against the other towns and stuff like that. That’s about all I know about sports.

Charles Grey 0:46:43 Parties

Eustacia Johnson 0:46:44 And partying and out there. Yeah, we had a good time. It was party time to us.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:46:55 Did you have any relationship to anyone who played for you, or did you? Or do you? Were you a partisan of any team in particular, or was it just to be there in the atmosphere?

Eustacia Johnson 00:47:05 The atmosphere. We were just there and there was somewhere to go for us. So similar to 2nd street. That's what we did. We worked for fifty cents an hour during the week and then we go spend that on the weekend at the restaurant or the park somewhere. We didn’t have anything. I mean, what was he gonna do? We weren't allowed to go in the restaurant and sit down. We had to have something of our own, you know. And 2nd St was our own. That's what we had. That was it. And so when they took that, that was it, that was all. It’s sort of sad, but we all made it. What are you looking for Mike?

Michael Hughes 00:48:02 I was looking for that picture of you and you girls out at the ball park.

Eustacia Johnson 00:48:09 Oh yeah, Lacey and all them. You got so many pictures [inaudible] Me as a picture. I don't know why it keeps up with them. But anyway, what do y'all do with all this information that you gather up?

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:48:33 Well, do you want to talk about that?

Kanbe Mao 00:48:36 2nd So basically what we're going to do is take this information and we're going to transcribe it. And then we're going to use it for our final projects, right?

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:48:54 That’s one thing that we're going to do, yeah, so this is part of a class that is focused on language and linguistics and anthropology. And so we're going to—the students are going to to use these as data for their final papers. That's one thing that's going to happen. The other thing is that this is going to be archived at the library at Centre and also be made available to the African American Historical Society so that anybody can access these interviews in the future, and so there will be a public record of African American history here in Danville. And then the third thing that's going to happen is that the data that the students are generating is going to go into an exhibition that's going to happen at the Norton Center in the fall. And so we're going to be inviting everyone who did the interviews and other members of the community to the Norton Center to be part of the experience of showing—publicly—this history. So that's going to be another part of it. So there's several outlets.

Eustacia Johnson 00:49:47 Yeah, sounds good.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:49:49 Yeah, thank you.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:49:50 Yep, good for ya’ll.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:49:54 Are there any other topics that you think are important to talk about that you'd like to get on the record? Anything else that you think we haven't covered that is important to you to mention?

Eustacia Johnson 00:50:05 I think I've done mentioned all of it.

Jeffery Shenton 00:50:09 We've covered a lot.

Charles Grey 00:50:12 Yeah, it's a good interview.

Dr. Jeffery Shenton 00:50:14 Mr Grey. Mr. Hughes. Do you have any final questions?

Michael Hughes 00:50:17 No, I told you what you was getting.

Eustacia Johnson 00:50:21 What did he say about me?

Michael Hughes 00:50:23 I told you it's gonna be great, you know?

Michael Hughes 00:50:26 You was gonna tell it like it is, you know.

Eustacia Johnson 00:50:28 You ask, I'll tell you what I know.

Michael Hughes 00:50:29
Both interviews today have been really—I told Jeff, a couple days ago, I said, you really enjoy these two interviews, 'cause maybe maybe [inaudible] various chances. But, this is what we've been looking for.

Eustacia Johnson 00:50:44 Well, I hope I helped ya’ll.