Carolyn Prince

"You got to work together and love together and love God and go to church, take care of your children and work and just be, you know, a good citizen."

Jeffrey Shenton (JS): Okay so this is an interview with Ms. Carolyn Prince, my name is Jeff Shenton and I am the instructor for Anthropology 389 Lived Histories at Centre College. I’ll be responsible for recording this interview. First I’d like each of the interviewers to introduce yourselves, so please give your name, age, year at Centre, and where you’re from.

Marshall Taylor (MT): My name is Marshall Taylor. I am nineteen years old I am a first year at Centre and I’m from Wheeling, West Virginia

Carolyn Prince (CP): Nice to meet you

MT: Nice to meet you

Seth Thomas (ST): I’m Seth Thomas and I’m twenty years old. This is my first year at Centre and I’m from Mayfield, Kentucky.

CP: Nice to meet you. ST: Nice to meet you.

Jason Wong (JW): Hi I’m Jason. I’m eighteen years old. First year at Centre College and I’m from New York City.

Carolyn Prince: Nice to meet you. Okay. My name is Carolyn Prince. I'm 87 years old. I was born and raised in Danville, Kentucky. I was raised on a street called wilderness road, which was considered as underground railroad where they brought slaves through here to wilderness road and they show to them across the street from where I lived, of course that was many, many years before I was born. But I was told by a white lady. She stopped by my house one day, just a few years ago to tell me, asked me, did I know that all that happened up there? And I told her, no, I did not. I was raised by, um, I was raised by my mother and father and my father, dad had a terrible wreck when I was 10 years old and he died. So my mother raised me. So, uh, where the old crowing in is, which you all probably not for me with what sat on Stanford road. It was a place where people could go and eat like a hotel and everything used to be a man, a white man that lived there many, many years before Ms. Adams owned the Old Crow and he was a Quaker. Well, let me backup. Uh, this white lady I was with to my mother's house after she passed, when they cleaned up and this white lady saw me there and she said, do you mind if I come in? I said, no, you come on in, come on in. So she came in and she said, I wanted to know that I had been through the archives in Frankfort, Kentucky about the street. And it's all you have to see here that this street used to all out there in front of your house used to be dirt, just a dirt road. And the women sitting out there in the street, they're making brooms out of hemp and so, they used to call this street hemp road. And she said that Greek house right across the street from your house used to be a house where they hid slaves, uh, the Quaker man at the Old Crow he would get them up to Kentucky so far to Danville. And then they would a black family lived in that brick house at the time, but they was helping him to get those slaves he had down in the basement. So I thought that was so very, very interesting because we didn't know anything about that. We was living on a gold mine, and didn't even know it because my mother being single me ups a little girl, we didn't even take a newspaper. We didn't have a phone. And nobody told us about this underground railroad until I just learned about a stone, the white lady, just a few years ago. Well, I went to Bates school.

Carolyn Prince: (04:04) I graduated from Bate High School. And during the time that I grew up was very, very segregated and we knew nothing else. Nobody told us we did not have a John Lewis or Martin Luther King up here to help us. We just thought that's the way it was supposed to be. And we always went to church. We knew we had to go to church, no question about that. We'd go to church. And after church, we'd go up to the drugstore on Main Street in Danville. And we knew that we could not sit down, no place uptown could we sit down in none of the drug stores. None of the restaurants we couldn't, we could, we could stand at the end. We didn't know anything else we thought how It's supposed to be. We were standing at the end of the counter and all the food. We could order food, but you had to take it on out even to the public library in Danville.

Carolyn Prince: (04:58) At that time, when I was growing up, we was not allowed to go into the library. And now I'm very proud to say that I did belong to. At one time I belonged to a Girl Scout troop as a young girl. And I do have a picture of me and my Scoutmaster. Her name was Sadie Turner, uh, me and her and two or three other girl Scouts. We have a picture in the public library up there on a wall up there. And I'm very proud of that. And when I finished my high school, as I told you, then we couldn't, it went on the bus anywhere. We had to sit down on the very, very, very back seat. And if we went on the train, we had a certain section that we sat in, couldn’t eat in the dining room. We'd have to take our lunch with us. We always had a shoe box and put it in the sack So we could eat when we go visit that family and friends. I mean, is there any questions that you'd like to ask me now?

MT: (06:09) I have a question. Okay. With me, if it's okay with you, um, let me ask you, um, did you ever get upset with not being able to do the same things that the white people did or was it just something that that's always how it had been for you? So you never really knew that you should be upset?

Carolyn Prince: (06:26) No, I know. I didn't know. I didn't know that to get upset because I knew nothing else. That's the way we was raised this way we was brought up, we thought this was supposed to be, and like I said before, we had no one to speak up for us like John Lewis and Martin Luther King. So we just accepted the way it was. We knew nothing.

MT: Thank you

CP: Uh huh, any more questions? Also, let me tell you this also in school, when I was going to Bates school all the way through school, from the first to the 12th, our books were used. They come from the white schools after they were through with them and they'd have their names in the books. And then I just scraped their name out and put my name in and never thought nothing about it. Cause I thought, you know, it's all I knew. And I thought, that's the way it's supposed to be. We had no one to speak for us. John Lewis and Martin Luther King they were my heroes, my heroes, but we had used books and the football teams, they all were used uniforms from the white students when they got through with their football uniforms and the basketball uniforms. That's when they came, brought them to us. And our boys had to wear them, we knew nothing else. Any more questions?

Carolyn Prince: (07:56) And sometimes in the class books in our books would be two and three names, but you scratch names out and put your name on it and go on, never thought a thing about it. Thought that's what it's supposed to be. And just amazes me now today to see how far we have come. And you all know who we owe that to that’s Martin Luther King, John Lewis and people like that, any more questions?

Jason Wong: (08:30) Um, I was wondering, um, from, you know, going to school one through 12, can you, can you elaborate on that experience of, you know, being, um, in a system that's segregated?

Carolyn Prince: (08:44) Oh, okay then, I'll be glad to, uh, we, um, well to tell you the truth. Uh, in Danville, uh, we had our own things. We had our own going on. We had our own doctor, Dr. CB Dodi. We had our own dentist, Dr. Bigger staff. He had his office, we had our own churches. And at that time, the older people, the older men, I should say, uh, they, uh, would be beacons in our church trustees at our church. And back then, back in the day, a lot of the older men, they weren't real educated, but they had a lot of wisdom, a lot of wisdom, and they knew how to take the money and put it to good use. We owned our own. We had about three tall buildings and they had, uh, like one building would have, uh, we had a youth center on one building Sadie Turner, as I mentioned to you before, she was a scout leader, she saw where the young people, we didn't have anything to do, couldn't go swimming.

Carolyn Prince: (09:55) We couldn't go in the swimming pools. In Danville, not allowed in none of them, which is Sunny Side swimming pool, in Stanford Road, we weren't allowed to go swimming. So in the summertime, when school was closed, we had something called playground. They called the playground and the playground. We had volleyball. We had croquet, um, we had, uh, all kinds of games badminton and different games. And we played games up there all day long in the summertime. They'd gave us something to do and keep young people out of trouble and stuff like that. That was wonderful. We did that until school started. That was in the summertime. Then winter time we'd be back to school again, but we had a wonderful football team. We had a wonderful basketball team. They go to different other African-American schools and, you know, play with them, play against them. It was wonderful. We had a good time.

Carolyn Prince: (10:57) We had our own beauty shops. In fact, my mother-in-law had a beauty shop up over the one of the, um, grocery stores. At that time, we had a Masonic hall. We had Masons and it's all Black, but it was fun. Fun, fun. I'll tell you. We had our own taxi cab, the rich had a taxi cab. And they also had a pool room that gave us, you know, something to do. And then this Sadie Turner what she would do in the summertime. A lot of times at night, uh, she would have the city to block off, uh, from First Street to Second Street. She put those, they put those yellow horses up so that no cars can come through. And we skated. We skated at night and we had our own thing to do. So. I mean, it was fun. Fun to me. It was, I mean, everybody seemed like to me back then, and we were taught, the older people, taught us how to treat other people. We, we treated people like we wanted to be treated and we respected the old people. You had to, you had to, you better speak to older people. You didn't just pass by and not say something. You'd help old people open door. We was taught. We had compassion for one another.

Carolyn Prince: (12:16) And we had, like I said, we had a youth center we'd go up and dance, we could dance. They play records. We dance at the youth center. So we had our own thing going on. It was fun, fun, fun. I thought. And then the teachers back then to me, they were compassionate towards their students. They would, if you needed help, you know, you know, on a subject or something, they would give you the individual attention. You're not just a number like you are now, not just the number, but they would show you compassion and help you to try to, you know, get down to what's going on in the classroom. Take time out to be with you. Any questions?

Jason Wong: (12:59) It sounds like a, a great experience too, you know? Um, have-

Carolyn Prince: (13:05) It was a wonderful experience. It was a wonderful experience. And you care those friends all through your life. I mean, now, even now some of us call each other some of them are in Colorado, New York, Detroit. And we talked to each other on the phone, you know, we stay in close contact with each other. Of course, we lost a lot of them; they died, we had, it was wonderful. I thought, I thought it was.

Jason Wong: (13:32) Um, I was wondering, what were your aspirations as a young person since you had all this like great connections?

Carolyn Prince: (13:41) As a young person?

JW: Mmhmm

CP: Well, it's a young person. Uh, I would go up to the playground every day when school's out and, uh, we couldn't get no jobs. Only jobs you could get would be babysit with somebody's child, but, but working in stores, working in stores and things like that, Now they didn't hire us to do that. The only, only people that I know would hire African Americans would be, um, there's a jewelry store on third street here in Gainesville. Can't think of the name of it, but they was awful good about, uh, hiring young people after school. If the jewelry store is still there, the son runs it. I can't think the name of it, but the mother and father, they would hire high school African-American girl would come in and work in the store. And the hubs sometimes would hire people to work in stores. Most majority of jobs that they would have for African Americans here in Danville would be cooks and janitors and then maintenance. It's all you could get. That's why a lotttt of African American people left Danville and went to like Ohio and New York and places to get better jobs

Carolyn Prince: (15:00) But as a young person, I enjoyed it. I had my bicycle and I had my skates. We would go skating up at night and riding my bicycle, go up to the bakery. Burst Baker always heard they had African Americans too but only in the kitchen, but now they do have them up front now.

Carolyn Prince: (15:19) So anything else y'all want, like they asked me, I'd be glad to tell you. And the, and also when I lived on wilderness road, uh, I was told by this white lady that the land that my, our house was found, I lived up there from time I was about six. I owned it up until about two years ago. I had to sell it because it was getting so I couldn't take care of it. So anyway, uh, anyway, I think that's about all I have to think of right now, but I was going to say that land at my house was on this white lady, told me one time that land belonged to Kentucky school for the deaf. And I didn't know all that stuff. Nobody told us black people, nothing. They ain't tell you nothing. They kept me in the dark. And as I said, we weren't able to get haven't take newspaper down phone.

Carolyn Prince: (16:16) So we just had to go with what we had to work with. And then after just after I sold my house, I had to sell it because I couldn't put a roof on it. Well, before that, I went to a place here, um, uh, organization that conserved old buildings and stuff. So I thought I need a roof on that house up there in Wilderness Road and where I lived, I was needing my house. I needed a roof too. And I thought, lord well, I can't afford to put two roofs. So I knew that my house was in the historical district. I knew after white woman told me, so I went to this organization and I asked them for help to put a roof on that house. And a girl had told me that she's going to tell you, they don't have no money. And I said, okay, I'm going to see, I went up there and I applied and she found fine but we didn't have any money.

Carolyn Prince: (17:05) I said, okay, that's fine. So then I had to sell the house because the roof was about ready to cave in. So I went on and sold the house because I had to, is there anything else y'all would like to meet to answer? I'd be glad to. We had a beautiful church. It was first Baptist church on the  Second and Walnut St. And of course we had a lot of activities going on there and we had plays and we had concerts sang in the choir, was singing it Bates school too! At Bates school too. We had a beautiful chorus up there. We had a Margaret Andrews was our director. She taught us long years ago. That “Hallelujah” Chorus, you know, “Hallelujah, Hallelujah” you know they sing it a lot during the Christmas time well she taught us that back in the day and it was simply beautiful. We would put on concerts and sometimes we'd wear evening gowns in our concerts sometimes. And then we'd have plays a lot of plays. And by the town being so small, everybody was compassionate towards one, compassionate towards the children. And we'd go up the Bates school to see the kids in plays and things like that- It was wonderful. It was, it was really wonderful. We had a lot of these, our own beauticians, own barbers, like I told, own doctor, own Dentist.

Carolyn Prince: (18:33) Okay. Can you think of anything else that I can help you with?

MT: (18:40) You see the same sense of community in Danville today, as you do back, as you did back then, there's a little bit different.

Carolyn Prince: (18:48) Oh, it's much different. The people are not the same. They have the people, these younger people have gone. They not as compassionate too. I don't think they're not as compassionate towards one another as we were. I think they've gone to par,

MT: (19:05) Do you have an idea as to why that could have happened or they can just, yeah,

Carolyn Prince: (19:09) I think, I don't know. I don't know why that happened. No, I don't. I I'd like to know that myself, but they not compassionate towards one another as we were, when I grew up and you asked me, what did I want to do? When I grew up, all I wanted to do, Ben was just getting married and have a family. Okay.

ST: (19:40) To that point you had earlier, you said that your idols were Martin Luther King. And so whenever, yes. When you heard about them and they're mostly peaceful, I know now, like people are really resorting to violence and stuff. And what would, if you were to like able to speak to everybody, what would you say to like get everybody to come together and be less violent and try to resolve things, via peace.

Carolyn Prince: (20:07) Be disliked them, be at peace and treat everyone just like you would like to be treated and be compassionate towards one another and work together. It's on the way things is going to work. You got to work together and love together and love God and go to church, take care of your children and work and just be, you know, a good citizen.

MT: (20:39) You said you had dreams of growing up and raising a family. Did you always picture yourself in Danville for your whole life? Or did you realize that you probably going to have to move, to find better employment somewhere else? At some point

Carolyn Prince: (20:50) I, I came, I stayed in Danville and found in and here, but I was divorced and I made it, um, later years I divorced, but I did go to two gassy business college. I finished up school and then I got a job with Corning. Corning, New York came to Danville and I got a job with them. And I was with them for about 35 years. I worked with them, uh, Corning and North American field. Okay. Anything else you'd like to know?

ST: (21:29) Did you ever, when you were growing up and living in Danville, did you ever experienced like any sort of change in your community? Like, or like when did that happen? Like what stage you're alive for if it even happened at all?

Carolyn Prince: (21:42) No, I never did. Uh, no, I don't, I don't remember that, but we did a lot of traveling now. We'd go to New York and Chicago because we had family there. So we'd go visit him in New York, Rochester, New York, and, and, uh, later on a change. Well, I forgot about the urban renewal did come through here and change a lot of things. Urban renewal did tore down a lot of buildings and move people around and different things back then. Some of it was good and some of them, it wasn't, that's my opinion.

ST: (22:22) Oh, how old were you when the urban renewal like started?

Carolyn Prince: (22:27) Um, um, uh, I'd say about, I'm guessing late fifties and they tore down a lot of buildings and good urban knew it was good in a way and in a way it wasn't. Okay.

ST: (22:53) How did, how did these urban renewal projects affect African-American communities in Danville?

Carolyn Prince: (22:58) I think that was the main neighborhoods that they affected, but I don't, I think that was in my opinion, that's the only, uh, uh, neighborhoods that, that affected was the African-American community.

ST: (23:12) How did you see, like, including your own experience and what you saw around you? Like what changes were made?

Carolyn Prince: (23:21) Well, there was a lot of changes for one up on second street that was all African American business district. And I was told that we was checked out of that street up there. That was the one I main street that we had restaurants up there. We'd go up and sit down and drank, you know, go up and enjoy yourself. We had several restaurants and barber shops, beauty stations, beauty shops, I should have sent I'm sorry, beauty shops and barber shops. And that was our business district. And when Urban Renewal come down through there, they tore all that down. So yeah, that really expected African Americans. And I still miss it. I still miss that street. Did I answer your question? I hope I did. Okay. Of course. It's pretty up there now. Constitutional scars, pretty it's pretty, but I was told that it was stolen. That street was stolen from us and they moved us. They moved us down South on South second. Um, I can say that we were moved down further South, took the waistline up town.

Speaker 2: (24:38)So I would guess that this, uh, these projects caused like African-American people to leave Danville. And like, where did this? Where did they go?

Carolyn Prince: (24:48) Where did they go when they moved them from uptown? Well different, uh, a lot of people, uh, when Bob out in, you know, Dane deal and bought other houses and things like that, but we never did have another business district, all black, ours was all black. We had a Dr. Fry up there and he had the essence upstairs and downstairs was a pool room and we had all our own stuff. I hope I answered your question.

Speaker 2: (25:31) It left me speechless about whenever you said that that whole district were just kind of taken from y'all and I really, I don't know that really just hit me. I don't know. It's just very, very sad.

Carolyn Prince: (25:50) Okay. I didn't understand you.

JW: (25:55) Um, I was wondering Carolyn, um, art, Ms. Prince. You mentioned how the urban renewal, there were some good and some bad. Can you tell us what was this, um, good that you saw from this?

Carolyn Prince: (26:11) Well, um, some people did get better houses. They got money to get better housing in other neighborhoods. Some people did, but the business districts, what really hurt us, I think, but some did. Some people did get better happy, and some people didn't,

JW: (26:36) Um, uh, for the spatter housing, were they for African-American?

Carolyn Prince: (26:44) Got said one time when I was growing up, it was only about three or four streets here in Danville, back in the day that we could live on. I couldn't live everywhere. Only about three by three or four streets that, that I could live out. And after that, I mean, you can go nowhere else to live. You weren't allowed to buy houses in other streets on the upper streets, I should have said just about three or four, wanted a green. It was green. Then it's Martin Luther King now, but you live on Martin Luther King on one, the streets they have on Wilderness Road to be around Russell street. Good on Randolph Hill and Dunkin Hill. You weren't allowed to live nowhere. Yeah. Stuff cost through your race. Then later on, later on slowly, you could move into other neighborhoods.

Carolyn Prince: (27:41) And with African-American started moving it numb. And they were this younger group of young people. They they'd start moving out. Nice, better houses, nice neighborhoods and things like it. But when I come down, we couldn't, we couldn't do it. We couldn't go. We named Frank about doing that cause we knew we weren't allowed to. And so far as, um, fountain water fountains, you go out the railroad station. My grandfather was support supporter on the train and me and my grandma we'd have to go up and he'd come. He ran from Cincinnati to Chattanooga, Tennessee, and arrow. They come through here and we'd have to go out the railroad station to take him his supper and they'd have drank and founds, but you couldn't. You'd have a colored sign there. And a white you've been out drinking and quite a lot.. And you go to the ground bus stations and banks, you had bathrooms, but one was for white and one was calling and you knew better to go in there, white when you're going to be in the color.

Carolyn Prince: (28:51) And we knew to do that. So, I mean, you just did it. I know I went to a store one time. I used to go to Lexington and shop a lot. And as a young person, and I've kissed up grand handbooks and go to Lexington to chop and go down tangle. And I've ventured across the street over there to a big store. I just walked in there to see what they had. And I walked in the store in Lexington on main street and picked up. I just nipped the jury and I picked up, uh, earrings. And this sales woman come to me. She said, ma'am, I'm sorry, but we don't serve colored people in here. That's all. I'm sorry. I just dropped the arrangement. Come on out. I mean, I don't need a fuss in the batter. I never had been in there before. So that's what she told me said, we don't serve Coke peeping at, Oh, I'm sorry I come on now. But now that's the kind of stuff we went through. That's what we went through. If we knew.

Carolyn Prince: (29:52) And then a way integration has helped us in an integration has hurt of too, in a lot of ways, especially it's helped us with jobs and education going out to eat. And something like that with some, some integration things have hurt us. Some, some in some ways, good job got better jobs. Cause I couldn't get no job working in the 10 cents store. I couldn't get no job working in McDonald's I couldn't get, I mean, yeah. Back in washing dishes back then washing dishes. That's what I do. Go back. And then washing dishes, I guess you all surprised to hear all this? Aren't you? Or did you already know? Or had heard? 

JW: (30:43) Well, I mean, in, in school we are taught a little bit about how, um, everything was divided, but we, I don't think, you know, we learned really fully.

Carolyn Prince: (30:56) Yeah. I lived it. I lived it. Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to hear besides, uh, I asked me question though. Ma'am

ST: (31:09) Yeah. You mentioned, uh, integration and how it was good and bad. How, how was it? Uh, how is it bad for you?

Carolyn Prince: (31:18) Well, I thought it was bad when we lost that street. Um, when they took second street away from us, that was our business district. I thought, I thought it was bad. And to this day I still think it was bad. So I'm just smiling and going on.

MT: (31:40) How did you feel about leadership at the time? Like the people that are making these decisions to take second street away from you and call it urban?

Carolyn Prince: (31:48) Well, uh, it wasn't anything I could do. I mean, I, I heard I have a taken it. Um, well I heard they kicked us out of it and that's what I was told. And I was told by one of the leaders of our communities, they told me that they tricked us out of it. So I mean, what nothing I could do, but I tell you what, we did have one counselor on city council. His name was Cecil Cohen, and he got on he some kind of way. He got on the city council made on in years and he would of course attend, all the council meetings and things like that. And he'd come back to the church and he would tell us, you know, what was going on in the city, what was going on. That's how we knew he he'd go to all the church and tell him what was going on and see the, I thought that was wonderful him to do that, But we had some good, we had some good leaders in our church, first Baptist, did.

Carolyn Prince: (32:59) I can't think of anything else right now, but, uh, now we weren't allowed to go in none of the restaurants, you couldn’t sit in. And you're going in, spend in the counter, go to the back door and we had one, uh, bond, boy, you could go around the back and order and they'd bring that, send it back to you, but you couldn't go in and sit down. And, uh, we didn't have no, I told you though, I think I told you we didn't have no swimming pools. So only time we got to go swimming would be on time. We'd go get to go. Swimming would be when I church would go every August, the eighth, we take a church, people to Lexington those to the Douglas Park that a Douglas Park was African-American park. It was big and beautiful. Having a huge swimming pool. We get to go over there once a year to go swimming. And when we go to the movie, we pay 10 cents to go to the movies up on main street, Kentucky [inaudible] okay. We get a week. I though it was the left door and the white people door was the right door and close you buy tickets. I pay my 10 cents, go on and then go upstairs in the, in the, uh, upstairs. 

Carolyn Prince: (34:23) I couldn't think of, we'd go have to go up to the balcony and sit, see the moves. Couldn’t go downstairs and cook. Then not go to the bathroom. Couldn't go to the bathroom, had a man in women's bathroom. So I had an aunt that lived down the street on first street. So during the commercials and near intermissions. Yeah. Uh, well, uh, we on Saturdays so young, we'd go up to the movies and they all day long and look at feed. Didn't have no TVs and stuff back then. So we'd go up around fairness, look at Cowboys all day long. So and emission I'd run down to my aunt, had to go to the bathroom, go down to her house and run back up to the theater to get my seat. We couldn't go to the, and they'd be out white people on one side, we on this side and you want to buy popcorn and stuff. You see them when you be down there buying new popcorn, stuff like that, but you couldn't go on that side. But I liked. I said we had fun up in the balcony. 

Carolyn Prince: (35:34) So that's what I, and I lived all that I live there. It was wonderful. It was fun, fun, fun. Cause was with, you know, friends and relatives and things like it's going to the movies and going skating and different things like that.

MT: (35:55) Were there any African-Americans in film at the time or none? 

Carolyn Prince: (36:00) Well, the African-American what?

MT: (36:03) In the film that you'd be watching or in the plays?

Carolyn Prince: (36:09) No you couldn't get no job up there doing nothing like that. Um, they was all white, ushers, and all that, all that was white. You knew you couldn't get no job places like there. That's why a lot of black people left in Kentucky went to Ohio, got better jobs and house and all that kind of stuff.

ST: (36:50) How was Ohio different from Danville? As far as like policies and rules and regulations and overall opportunity. Uh, how was Danville or how was Ohio so much better than Danville?

Carolyn Prince: (37:08) Well, Ohio, uh, you could, uh, you know, it wasn't segregated like Danville. Kentucky was that's how they gobbled up African-Americans uh, and the underground railroad to get them up to Ohio. They'd be free. I think they went public North. They was free. That's why they got them up in Ohio to be free. You could go, you know, doing things. You want to go to restaurants and, and get better jobs better in New York. And I don't know through them from now you had better opportunities, but better jobs and everything was better to go to restaurants and things like it here. It was just terrible, terrible, terrible. But then to me it didn't seem terrible. Cause it's all we knew. But now I can look back on and see my, well, nobody didn't speak up. Nobody spoke up. We felt like this. What are we supposed to do?

MT: (38:10) What role did center college play in all of this? Were they kind of in the background or were they involved in the community at all during this time?

Carolyn Prince: (38:19) Oh, well the Centre College, when you couldn't go to Centre college you would go send them costs, which I worked some in the summertime only place you could go would be in the kitchen. And they had made to clean up the rooms and um, African American women cleaned up the women's rooms at center college at bedtime center. Cause for women. So here mixing the Avenue where the Danville high school and my mother, she was a waitress in the dining room. They had 10 or 12 waitresses waiting on those girls, students. They have individual tables and of course the dishwashers was African-American men and all the cooks was African-American women. Not that I know of. If they were, I didn't know nothing about it the only thing they were, they came in with be getting jobs. They did have black people for the yard work until the kitchen maintenance. Yeah. Maintenance. That's the way they was involved. They weren't involved at all. And you see no black students at all? No, no, no, no. In the kitchen.

ST: (39:40) When did, uh, integration come to Danville and how did the, uh, uh African-Americans and the white people react?

Carolyn Prince: (39:51) I think I'm not sure, but I think it was 19 and 64 when they integrated. And I think you could go there if you wanted to. And some of them were mistreated and some of them wasn't, but, uh, I can't speak on that cause I don't really know, but it was about, about 1964 when integration hit, but I don't remember any like marching and you know, no retaliate, none of my, I don't remember that happening here in Danville. I think they, I think it went, I I'm sure they had some incidents, but not the extent of marching and burning and all that kind of stuff. And when I was in school, we had religion in school. In high school. We had religion at least once or twice a week. And I, I, religion teacher taught us Bible almost Ms. Hudson. She was a white woman and she come once a week, I believe was once a week, Ms. Hudson would come and teach us Bible. We had religion. And every morning before, before we had class every morning before we had class, we would read a scripture out of the Bible, Patrick allegiance to the flag. And you better not let that thread touch that grain. I mean, not ground floor, but not let it touch it. Every morning we had to read a scripture. Somebody, one of you in the class had to get up and read a, you know, a Bible verse

Carolyn Prince: (41:31) And I'll say the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning. And then it's up to, like I said, she come and teach us Bible once or twice a week. And they was Ms. Hudson white lady.

MT: (41:47) Have you seen the church's role in the community kind of digress over the years?

Carolyn Prince: (41:54) Well, I don't think they have, you said, did you say, how did the churches that grant said? Wouldn't you say yes.

Speaker 5: (42:05) How their role in the community digressed?

Carolyn Prince: (42:10) Oh, well that was a, they really was a help to the community because we all went to Sunday school. We better go to Sunday school. That was no course. If you knew you go to Sunday school on Sunday morning, you go Sunday school stay welcome to Begley. Um, Jim drug store, stand behind the next to the end of the counter and order Coke or whatever you go up and get on out of there. And then you go on back to church and then we go to church and then lay down that evening. We go to BTU. That was our Sunday. Couldn't go, couldn't go. No I parents, when those go, no movies on Sunday, couldn't go to movie. We had to go to church. We just knew to do that. And we made, I think when Jordan was made better adults,

MT (42:55) I know they were involved in the community. 

Carolyn Prince: (42:59) Well, the church was involved in community. Like we'd have picnics and have teas and dinners and things like it. Always having something to church. I bet have singers, come in groups, come in Cortez choir as how they was involved. And you go back up after that, then they'd have teas across the street. And then we, we would belong to the largest. We had young people locked just, and the older people, you know, they teach us things.

JW: (43:29) That's fine.

Carolyn Prince: (43:32) Yep. We've involved in everything I was involved in scouting. Christmas   time. We'd go around to different old people's house and sang Christmas carols at Christmas time. And the summertime I would go to, it was, uh, down near Fort Knox, Kentucky down near Louisville. Iwould go to summer camp down there. They had a camp down there, almost a camp. I mean to a fortnight's they had a camp down there with all African American girls. They had cabins down there. I got to go to that. I think two summers I'd go down there for summer camp. We camp out and roast hot dogs and do things like that. I can, they had a huge swimming pool and we'd swim in the swimming pool and things. I could, I did that twice going to summer camp, we always had stuff to do. We was always doing stuff. We hike. Sometimes we go on hay rides. Some the older men had horses and wagons and hay and a bunch of us young people. They take us up junction city and go to Mr. Bircher. Logan's half on the hay ride and we'd go to the airport. There was a small airport and we'd go over there. And we always had involved in something. It wasn't that we didn't have nothing to do. We played dominoes at night. Sometimes Chad, Chinese checkers. We was always doing stuff.

Carolyn Prince: (44:58) Fun stuff, always fun stuff. You ain't hear nothing bout this dope and all that kind of stuff. You may hear about that kind of stuff. We always played games. We didn't have to buy no gangs. What was a gang? And we didn't have about no gangs, nothing like that. They're always doing stuff like it's going to them, going to the movies, going skating and doing, we doing stuff, fun stuff. You never heard. I never heard the word gang unto here in the later years, all his dope and gangs and stuff and his stuff like it and all. And then you listen to all the people they had, you know, they tell you what do you better do it. Anything else? Well, okay then I guess I’ll sign off, I hope y'all enjoyed my little, what I told you about being back in the day, but it was wonderful. They made better adults. I think

Jason Wong: (46:17) Actually I have, um, a few more questions. Uh, I want to say,

Carolyn Prince: (46:21) Sorry. I'd love to answer them if I can. Okay.

JW: (46:24) Um, well, uh, discussing about, you know, how you mentioned today, the younger generation seem to, you know, not be too together. Um, I was wondering like if you had the power to, you know, make Danville today, you know, more equitable or inclusive as a community, what could be done?

Carolyn Prince: (46:49) Uh, what could be done, uh, be more in, uh, involved in church and work together, be compassionate towards one another. Like we used to be. I think that would help a lot. I hope I answered your question.

JW: (47:11) Yeah. Um, um, going back to about the urban renewal, um, you mentioned how, you know, you didn't really have the power to do anything about it. If you did, what would you have changed about,

Carolyn Prince: (47:30) I would have left, um, second street, the business sections for black people. I would have left it there. I would just make them, you know, upgrade their buildings more and fix them up better and stuff like that. That's what I would change. I would never text that, that street for African Americans. That's what I would've changed.

JW: (48:04) Just kind of jumping around a little bit. Um, I was wondering like, you know, you you've mentioned how Centre College back then, uh, you know, wouldn't even like black students, um, or, and have jobs as only in the kitchen. Um, are there things that, you know, what you think Centre College can do today to acknowledge their past or, you know, w what they could do to, you know, have a more inclusive environment?

Carolyn Prince: (48:34) Um, just, uh, have more, uh, African American students there instead of just a little handful, making it more and, you know, make them want to come back to school more, have more activities for them, you know, to do I thank you. I'll just have a handful. Whereas other schools have a bunch. I think that would be nice. If you could have more activities that they would enjoy, like, you know, like, like you all have that, uh, Norton center you could have, like, they used to there for a long time that they was having a lot of, uh, African-American musicians and things like BB King and things is gonna make African-American kids feel comfortable with have more like, you know, like I said, like, uh, I've been over there and I saw BB King over there. And I've seen though, who else that sees several of them over there and two years ago. But if you have things like that, to make it more inviting for them to feel more comfortable, you'd have more students wanting to come.

JW: (49:59)Is there anything, you know, center could do to acknowledge the past then  about, um, cause I remember, uh, our professor, Dr. Shenton mentioned how, um, uh, the new dorms that we have now originally was like a community of blacks. And so basically that was all, you know, removed and displaced a lot of their homes.

Carolyn Prince: (50:24) Yeah. I don't know how to answer that. Cause I don't know too much about y'all's campus or anything I've been over at, like I said, two, two or three of the concerts for other than that, I haven't been over there for anything. I didn't really know how to answer that.

JW: (50:49) Well, yeah. Um, for our class, sometimes we, uh, we would discuss about, you know, uh, ideas of what can we do to acknowledge our history so that, you know, none of this is forgotten, like especially, um, the urban renewal and displacement of so many people's homes. Um, so that's why I was wondering, like, to get a sense, what you think we could do more, uh, to address such

Jason Wong: (51:26) Uh, addressed our past or of Danville.

Carolyn Prince: (51:32) I didn't quite get the question. I didn't quite get the question. 

MT: (51:42) What should the next steps be, what should center do? Like what are the next steps for center and acknowledging

Carolyn Prince: (51:48) Um, well, like I said, what, like I said, if she, I think she brings, bring more African American entertainment, you know, they would help a lot like musical plays during black history month. I don't know. But I think that will help along bring more Micah entertainment. African-American entertainment in there. Music wise, I played plays and yeah, like artists and stuff in there, but that wasn't really him. I hope I answered your question. I didn't know how to answer it really well, but I think that would have to bring more students, get their attention more.

Jason Wong: (52:47) Thank you so so much. Yeah, I, um, yeah, uh, like I remember, so I'm from New York city and um, I remember like I lived in a predominantly Hispanic and black neighborhood, so like it's interesting coming here too, because, uh, center is like 73% white and then, uh, blacks and Asians, they're pointing like a few percentage. So I do see how, um, it's a small school. So I think it's a challenge of like having people, you know, know

Carolyn Prince: (53:23) About. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I've never been to New York city, but my daughter, Debbie has, I'm only been, I used to go to Rochester, New York all the time. Cause I had an uncle up there and we'd go out to Niagara falls and places like that. But you all did have some speakers over there for Martin Luther King night and stuff I get, but this probably the diet family will have something, but it'd be nice. If two hours have more artists back artists over there would help. Okay.

Professor Shenton: (54:18) Ms. Prince, um, Ms. Prince, before you go, I'm just wondering where we're close to the end of our time. Um, in terms of we're we're close to an hour here, but I just wanted to, before you go leave it open to you, is there anything else that you wanted to tell us about your own story or your own family or your own past that you didn't get a chance to say yet?

Carolyn Prince: (54:41) No, I think it's all right now. I think that's all I can think of right now. And I enjoy doing this. I hope they got something out of it.

Professor Shenton: (54:52) Well, I, I think we did. Um, and I want to thank you personally, um, on behalf of the whole class for, for being a part of this,

Carolyn Prince: (54:59) I can help you like this, this column. I'll be glad to. 

Professor Shenton: (55:04) Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Carolyn Prince: (55:06) You’re most welcome. Okay. Bye-bye thank you. I enjoyed doing it.

Professor Shenton: (55:14) Bye-bye uh, before I end the recording, I just want to, I didn't get a chance to mention that this recording is happening on Friday, January 22nd, 2021. And I'll end the recording now.