Michael Hughes

Parts of this transcript were autogenerated and there may be errors.

Content warning: descriptions of war

Kaden Bryan: Hello everyone, My name is Kaden Bryan. Today I will be interviewing Michael Hughes who is president of the Danville Boyle County African American Historical Society. I am here with Holden Techet, Sawyer Brieter, Zach Shofner, Professor Jeffery Shenton, Michael Hughes of course, and a small audience. Today is January 11th 2023 and we are recording this interview in the Danville Boyle County African American Historical Society. Today we will be discussing Michael Hughes, um, experiences living in Danville from the mid 1900’s till the present.

Zach Shofner: Awesome, so, um, kinda just to start off, what would you say is your earliest memory from childhood living in Danville?

Michael Hughes: Oh wow, probably from about ten eleven years old, actually. You know um, I grew up, um, in Danville, um. My early-early days was spent out in um, I was, I lived in the country and about 1960, I think, my parents moved to, um, Danville down on Walnut Street. That was when I first um, I ain’t gonna probably start following the history or recognizing the history that was being made. It was just mostly childhood thing I went to elementary school. An all Black school, Bate school. It was a twelfth, it was um, 1 through 12 you know, elementary and highschool at the same time so, that's probably my earliest, um, remembrance of Danville, um.

Holden Techet: Um, what were, what were your first memories of, of Second Street specifically like?

Michael Hughes: Okay, Second Street. Um, probably my first real, um, remembrance of Second Street was when I was probably about twelve thirteen maybe, uh. I and, I also spent a lot of time living in the country, not living in the country. Staying with my grandfather which lived, he lived about five miles out in a place called Meuxtown. And on the Saturday morning he would come to town and we go to the movies which was up on mainstreet, uh, Kentucky Theatre. And then would um, he would park his car down on Second Street and we would come down from the theater and uh, get into the car, and watch all the activity cross the street on Second Street and. Just about every Saturday you could see, it was a lot of, there was restaurants, um, pool halls, barber shop, it was the central, you know, it was the African American business district. And it was just, you thought wow, this must be great. You know, and you, I thought wow, well I can't wait till I grow up, you know, to be a part of that action, you know. So, you know, that was my first, um.

Kaden Bryan: Did you have a favorite restaurant on Second Street?

Michael Hughes: Uhh, not, I had a favorite restaurant because Turner's Restaurant was where they used to serve, she had chili dogs, she made chili dogs. They called them Coney Islands and they used to wrap, she used to wrap them in a white paper. They was my favorite. I never, at a young age I didn’t go in there and when I was a teenager uh, I got to visit her restaurant and um, but that was probably, that just because there was food that came out of there, but I , I, at a young age, and now as teenager I went into uh, some of the uh, some of the restaurants had gone by that time, um, umm, there was one called the Bamboo that was up the street, and you know they had um jukebox in there and I ,uh, hung out with some of the older cats you know, and so. I kinda think that was probably my favorite.

Holden Techet: Umm, while we are still on the topic of Second Street, um, you know we are here now. We see what it’s like, um, as of right now, but when did you, when did, its definitely different than what you described.

Michael Hughes: Ohh yes, ohh yes, um. Up until 1970, the early 1970s. Uh, when urban renewal came through and, um, with the promise, the buildings theyself was, um, they was becoming dissipated, I think that’s the word I’m tryna think, but, but, there was a culture there regardless. People didn’t care as much about the buildings as they did about the culture of having their own, you know. And when urban renewal came through with the promise that they was going to rebuild the buildings and sell them back to the Black community. They didn't do that. So, what they did do, they sold it to the city, to, to the state. Urban renewal bought it, bought the properties under pressures, uh. One of the buildings on Second Street was um, Masonic Lodge hall which was, uh, three-story building. Now you taking back in the sixties anybody, I don’t think there was no taller building in Danville than three-story building. And if you a kid, you see a three-story building with all kind of activity going on, everything. It’s like seeing a ten-story building you know. That’s how majestic the building was you know, so. But when all that left, slowly but surely they did, they tore it down and, and, i, I think a lot of people was waiting for the buildings to be rebuilt, and then, but, it never happened. Next thing you know it's just uh, it's nothing there. And what three to four years later they, they built a park that you see there today you know, so. If you come ride up and down Second Street or if you come through here or just going up through Main street or something and you look to your left or look to your right and you see that, you’d never visualize that it used to be a powerful Black business district.

Sawyer Breiter: So, it sounds like as you grew older your involvement with Second Street also grew along with your age. Prior to uh, your large involvement with Second Street, was there a spot you and a lot of other children would hangout? Like a park or anything?

Michael Hughes: Not there on Second Street, there wasn’t uh, the activity moved to uh, uh, the housing projects that was down at the bottom of Second Street. And there was a place called 'the rock fence" and it was a big fence that bordered the entrance to uh. And that became the social hub you know. It was where everybody hung out, you know. And inside of Batewood Homes because at one time there was a swimming pool there, that was. Uh, let me back up and say that, back in the sixties, fifties and sixties um, Black people was not allowed to swim in any of the public pools. So, uh, they went out to Clifton which is one of the um, one of the settlements outside, outside of Danville. And there was Herrington Lake out there and after a couple people drowned there at the Herrington lake, pressure was put on the county and the city to build a pool so we uh,so we. There was a lot of funds raised, finally a pool was created down on []. It was a nice pool originally, but two things about that pool. They built it on a floodplain area. So, it was never a great, it was never great as far as where at, and before you knew it the maintenance of the pool became an issue. And it needed a really um, it needed a lot of work and the city didn’t follow through on that and um, and they boarded it up, but they didn’t board it up safely, and a young boy went inside the pool and feel in the pool and hit his head on, uh,uh, uh, we used to call them Kroger baskets but, it was a basket that, that people push at stores and groceries. And um, he died, so after that they covered the pool up, you know. But also, after the pool was gone they built a baseball field. And it, people hung out in the projects for, and uh, Batewood Homes you know. That was the social gathering after Second Street. It was thought of as generational type thing you know. The generation that, that frequented Second Street, they pretty much died out and moved on and then all the activity moved to the Batewood Homes and uh, you know. Finally that, that, after, so many years even that left. So, as of today there really is not a place or park that Black folks hangout at in, in, in any number, you know.

Kaden Bryan: So, you mentioned they, they built a baseball field over that pool afterwards.

Michael Hughes: Not over the pool, but beside where the pool used to be you know, it was uh, and it was very active cause uh, we, we all played softball and there was a lot of softball and um, people just hung out. A lot of times um, on Sunday evenings um, usually on Sunday evenings cause I’m a musician also. DJ, I have been a DJ for over 50 years and vocalist and things. We, I uh, set up on Sunday and um, evenings and uh, the whole project would be this packed and, and we, it, it was, and after, after we’d play softball and then we’d have a party you know, until the, until the police would come and shut it down late at night you know so.

Kaden Bryan: So, so were the Danville Cubs and the Yankees, were they already established when that field was built?

Michael Hughes: That’s a whole, that was different, nah. Um, the Cubs, the Cubs and the um, Danville Yankees was from another generation. They was from the thirties and forties, by the fifties they was gone. This, this field I’m talking about was late sixties, early seventies you know. Went until about, I think seventy-five, you know. I know that the, the, the time slot you talking about, fifty years, fifty, sixty years you know. For you young folks I that's different because yall haven’t got, (laughing) haven’t had too much past you know, twenty right? But all those things happen in a different time set you know. The Danville Yankees and the Cubs uh, they played at the Duncan Hill Ball Park and that was um, from twenties on up till about forties and fifties and in the sixties and seventies is when the Batewood Homes had the park and baseball was softball, baseball wasn’t, baseball had pretty much ceased on a, on a, on a semi-pro level by then in this area anyway.

Zach Shofner: Um, so I know you mentioned you had been a musician for the last fifty years, kind of, how did you get your start with that?

Michael Hughes: Oh wow, um, I, I was, you know coming up in a school like Bate School there was always, music was, was something, everybody wanted to be a singer you know, some of the talent shows they used to have. They used to have talent shows and you would think that the amount of talent that, that was in Bate School um, could probably rival some of the stuff you see on, on American Idol or some of those shows like that, cause everybody, everybody wanted to be a singer, everybody wanted to, I wanted to be a musician play, I want to play this instrument, that instrument. It was very limited, the school was very limited on instrumentation that they had available and the music teacher had his picks, who he wanted to play this, play that. So, I figured out pretty early that I could sing a little bit and dance a little bit so I started to sing you know, and um. So, um, I started out with a band called the Night Owls back in the sixties and uh, they used to travel from Lexington, Winchester, we all, I was seventeen traveling with guys, now when I say age, when you seventeen and you hanging out with guys that’s twenty-five and thirty, they considered old cats you know what I’m saying. So they, they um, at first I started out singing background and they had a couple singers that was really good so, and one of them, one of the problems with that band is they liked to drink, by the end of the night most of the band was drunk you know. So, a couple nights uh, a couple times the singer, the lead singer didn’t get um, he didn’t show up so the manager of the band asked me to, you know, step in and sing, so that’s, that’s how I started singing and um, people started digging what I was doing so, you know, I became, and I stayed with that band for, for a long, for a couple years, but I was never satisfied, like I wanted to have my own thing you know. I felt like I had, you know. And um, so, I started a band called uh, I, I, the band was already formed, but it was a band called the Mystics and let me go back a little bit, you know. Another thing I uh, I had a nickname of Meadowlark. I don’t know if y'all ever know of who Meadowlark? Meadowlark was one of the stars of the Harlam Globe Troters back in the early days. I was also a pretty good athlete and uh, one, one, one day in the gym at recess the principal came through and he saw me throw a behind the back pass and he started calling me Meadowlark. So, when I got to Danville High School from Bate uh, everybody thought it was from music you know. So, the band I was working with was called the Mystics so we was scheduled to play um, back um, down at a place called the Rice Pattie. The Rice Pattie was named after the Vietnam, rice patties. Anyway, so at the announcements that day about the dance that gonna be at the Rice Pattie they, the lady come over the mic and said, “I want y'all to come to the dance tonight to hear Meadowlark and the Mystics you know. So, that name stuck um, and um, the band went on to win the Crusade for Children in Louisville in nineteen '68 which was a big thing you know, and, so I left that band after I um, graduated from high school. There wasn’t many choices for someone, you know Black folks didn’t have that many choices. I wasn’t a, I wasn’t college, I wasn’t like you guys. I couldn’t, I couldn’t step into the college world so I joined the Marines. And uh, I don’t know what I did that for but, I did. In '69 I ended up in the bush in Vietnam, you know so. I came out of there, you know, by the grace of the good Lord, you know and um came back home and I tried to get the band Meadowlark and the Mystics together again, but it didn’t work. So, I, I just kept on playing with different bands and stuff. And then in like seventy, I think seventy-four, bands pretty much died, I mean you couldn’t hardly get in a band so somebody said uh, so I said, well if i can’t be a band, the hot thing was being a DJ so I became a DJ you know so. That, that’s kinda how my career went on that.

Sawyer Breiter: So, going back to the beginning days of your musical adventure, what was the segregation like at the concerts or within bands?

Michael Hughes: Today I, I uh, that was one of the questions I was asked today at uh, um, (phone ringing in background) I’m gonna put this down here. Um, at the um thing we did this morning for Larry Bitensky. Music don’t know colors, you know what I’m saying. You don’t, that the one thing that I, that I never encountered much of um, far as music-wise. Now, you might encounter where you could play you know, but um, most, most of the time that, you know, you never really encountered that because I played everywhere. I was playing, you know, not across the United States, but I played in Tennessee. I took bands to Tennessee, Chicago back in the day you know, places like that you know so.

Sawyer Breiter: So were the bands segregated or were they…?

Michael Hughes: So, that's another thing okay, uh. Yeah, in, in nineteen-sixty-eight, which was my senior year, there was three different uh, there was three different bands in, in the high school. Two of them was White and two of them, my band was all Black. There was that you know. I, you know, but, It was… I, I, I can’t remember exactly when I started, the band I got now, my present band uh, is uh, four, two Black guys and two, three Black guys and three Black folks and four White. I never had that problem you know. I mean, I you know, musicians seem like you know, come together you know, if you can play or if you can perform you know, but there was that in the sixties, thats, that’s a great question. In the sixties I . . . even, you would play, you would get turned down, you would. I mean you’d be up for a job and, and they probably wouldn’t give you the job because if you was an all Black band you know, playing for a White audience, in some cases, but not all cases you know, but that, it was there. But I, I never payed much attention to it you know. I just, I just did what I do you know. If you didn’t, I felt like if you didn’t want what I had to offer, then you was missing. You wasn’t hurting me you know what I’m saying, you know, so.

Kaden Bryan: So, we knew you were a bit of a track star in high school, so what, what role would you say sports had for you growing up and for Danville as well?

Michael Hughes: Uhh, Yeah, I ran uh track, I was, I was pretty good athlete, but I was. . . I didn’t use my head. I didn’t, you know. I, I was on uh, a good basketball player and uh, because of a couple things I ended up not getting to play basketball. Track you know, I did well. When I dropped out of school and I say this, I, I say this and I always correct myself, uh, it was a mutual agreement when I had to leave school because I . . . and I gave up for a minute. I dropped out of school and I came back. I said well I ain’t gotta go to school man, Second Street is cool you know. Uh, I, I, I was with the uh, people in the pool room, I . . . Let me go back and, and put this in here since we gonna . . . When I wanted to um, you know, getting in the pool room was cool you know, but I wasn’t in the pool room. All the older cats was in the pool room. So, um, the pool room was two blocks down. Was, was run by a gentleman named Mr. Tibbs. And he was a older guy, he a reputation of you know, he’d hurt you if you, if you, if you crossed him. And, but he had a chair, he used to sit in, like you come in the door of the pool room from here. You walked in that way and he was sat in a chair and he always claimed he couldn’t see good and if you walked in the door he’d look around at you like that, you know. And I was like, well I stood on the little step down there, at first I stood out in front of the pool room on the street. And you know, people passing by and I look cool like I was, well I wasn’t in the pool room. So, I said man I want to get in this pool room so bad cause all on the inside of the pool room, man, people laughing, talking, shooting pool, talking jive man, you know. I said I gotta get in here. So, I said to myself, I said um, I’m gonna walk in this pool room and if he puts me out . . . cause back in that day you had to have a uh, signed statement from your parents in order to be in the, to go in the pool room. And my parents wasn’t gonna do that cause they was church people man. They ain’t no way they was gonna sign nothing for me to go in the pool room. So, I said I’m just gonna go in and if Mr. Tibbs tells me get out, I’m just out right. So, I step up in the pool room door and walk into the pool room and Mr. Tibbs looks around like that. He said, “Boy, who’s your parents?” I said, I’m shaking and scared to say something. I said, “Sir, uh, uh, Robert and Scotty Hughes is my parents uh.” He said, “boy, come on in here, you my damn cousin.” So, that’s how I got in the pool room you know so. By the next week I was bringing my boys in you know. I said, hey man, iIm in the pool room, ya’ll come on in you know so. And I started working for him. Racking balls in the pool room you know and stuff like that. That’s how a lot of things like that I share history-wise is, is some stories that he would tell me. Um, I’d sit with him night after night after I got to know him and I’d go to his house. Sit on the porch and he’d tell me about stuff from the twenties and thirties cause that’s where his generation was you know. And he told me, I tell the story about um, he told me about football. He told me about a guy that we haven’t been able to find but just a little reference to him. I think it’s on that wall over there. Anyway, this guy was named um, Eb Harlan. And he told me he played football. And to give you kind of a rough reference of who Eb Harlan supposedly looked like was, ya’ll, ya’ll, the, the movie the Green Mile with Michael Duncan that played in it? Now this…, He told me way before Michael Duncan was known to anybody. He told me how big this guy was and he said that he was so big, that his feet was so big, that he has to wear, they didn’t even have shoes that would fit him. He had to wore galoches all the time because they just didn’t have shoes that would fit him. And said that um, he was, he used to work in a coal yard and I don’t know . . . Y’all know, y'all know what coal is, that goes in a stove? You know, big ole lumps of coal. And said most people would, in the, that worked in the, in, in the uh, uh, coal yard would take a pick and break the coal up. Said, Eb was so powerful and so, that he’d take his hands and just break it like that and put it in tubs and sell it to people you know. And so he didn’t come to school, so he, they let him come to school on a Thursday if they had a football game on a Friday you know. He’d just come in and suit up, he’d suit up to play football on that day. They get in the huddle and sadi they’d say, “Eb, now this play gonna go around to the right.” Said he say. “Okay, okay.” So they’d center the ball and Eb would go left and the whole team would go right and he’d go left. But said he was so powerful, by the end of the play he was in the, in, in the, standing in the end zone just telling people get off of me and stuff like that. And, said, said he played basketball and said that he played basketball and he’d come Thursday. He’d come show up at school, show up on Friday. They’d put him in the game and now you gotta know that in the sixties and fifties and in those days, there was two-point. There wasn’t no three-point there was two point baskets you know and, and probably the biggest score a game would be thirty-two, thirty-three points you know that’d be the top. See he’d score fifteen points and say, “I don’t wanna play no more.” and just walk off the court and said they wouldn’t see him until next Thursday you know. And he told me those stories in the sixties you know and, of course I’ve kept those stories in my head and so, that’s kinda, things, you shouldn’t get me talking cause I’d go on (laughter). Alright, I'm ready for the next question I guess.

Holden Techet: Um, you said you mentioned your parents were big on church, did you, did you go to church growing up?

Michael Hughes: Oh yeah, that’s how I started singing. I started singing in, what, uh, I, um, I related this, this morning inquiring you know. That, when, when I was eight to nine, I joined church at eight, nine years old in a little country church, and the, there was no, they didn’t have musical instruments in the church at that time. And the old Deacons would just sing. They sang a song and it would be just like almost like a chant. You know what I’m saying. (Singing) And, and then he, one Deacon would sing something like, and I, you that, and then the whole church would repeat it. But, they would sing it you know. So, that's how I started and then um, I got old enough and uh, I guess I started singing it too early cause my parents but, I got old enough and they finally got a piano in the church and then I started to singing in the choir and then, and my mother was so churchy, when I wanted to go you know, I followed the rules and I went to song in the church. But, I knew there was something more I wanted to do. I wanted to sing out and thing. Shen would like tell me, um, nah you can’t, you know. She wouldn’t let me. She wouldn’t let me go and, and I don’t know if y’all know what a "back door trot" is. Anybody? That’s, that's a outdoor toilet, that sat up on the hill. You know. And uh, I’d put a suit on and shirt and she’d catch me coming out the house. “Where you going, you ain’t going outta here” And I’d say, “ Momma, I’m just going to the toilet.” You know, so. And, I’d go up to the bathroom with a suit and tie on and looked to see if she was looking, I’d fly down the side of the house and go out to the club you know. So, that’s how I . . . And at first she uh, she scolded me, I don’t know if she ever whooped me for it. But, I don’t think so cause I, I was probably too old by the time. But, finally, she just started you know, stop worrying about me and I guess she just prayed for me you know and made it through you know.

Sawyer Breiter: So you mentioned uh, getting whooped by your mom. What was discipline like . . .

Michael Hughes: Oh, Gosh.

Sawyer Breiter: . . . in your household?

Michael Hughes: Belt, on your behind. I’ll tell you a story about that too. My mom worked um, uh, at, she worked in a domestic home and um. I, I lived not too far from the school I went to. So, she’d tell me, my, my rule was to come home, after school come home, right? Don’t go no where. But I know my worked, she didn’t get home till about seven o’clock. And uh, my dad didn’t get home from the field. He worked on a farm, and he’d get home about five. So, I took advantage of that and we’d go with my friend and played football, you know. Over there we’d play football and at four-thirty, I gotta to home before my people get home, right. Okay. One Monday, I go to play football, right. And I come home about four-thirty and my mom was in, in the house ironing clothes you know.. I’d done, and I started ohh, oh mom, And she said. “ nah, nah you gonna, you know. I told you to come home and didn’t come home and uh, you gonna get it, you got a whooping coming, alright.” Okay, so Monday night, I worried you know. Ma, she gonna get me, she gonna get me. Monday went through, momma didn't whip me. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday…oh well, I done got by I’m good, I ain’t gotta worry about it, I got away with this. We had a big tub that was in the bathroom so Saturday night mama goes “all right get your clothes off, get ready to get your bath" to get ready for church Sunday. OK, I get naked, get ready, get in the tub… she standing in the door with the strap (laughter) and to tell the story, I ain't forgot that, it's been awhile. it but mostly it wasn’t no water left in the tub because she run it out and they was rough, but it molded me in a way, you know, made me stronger in a lot of ways, but you know, but she . . . I never forget that whooping.

(Shofner)

So I know you mentioned your parents jobs are there any other job besides working at the pool hall that you had as a kid and then just a growing up?

(Hughes)

Oh yeah, I worked cutting tobacco, worked on, mostly farm work you know you couldn’t get-the Black folks didn’t get a lot of choices- you know even grown folks too, you know, you weren’t gonna get no choice you weren’t gonna work in no stores, you know, it’s just the way it was back then, you know. Most of the Black folks work domestic type work, my father, like I said, farmed mostly, my mother worked in homes and stuff, you know. I was raised by my stepmother, stepfather, who live there so, I think she worked in a restaurant and stuff like that. My daddy, I don't think he ever worked, my biological dad and him he was a player, or tried to be anyway, you know, I don’t, I didn't really know him that well until later in life, you know. Naw, but I know it was mostly that Black folks worked in laundries, if you, unless you was a teacher or you got a chance to go get education and go to college and get something, you might . . . I looke at a video, even if you got a good job or was a teacher, there’s a video we got here, about a teacher, he was a coach and he talked about his salary for a month or $242. So you can imagine how much you know, how much opportunites . . .

(Techet) So well you mentioned teachers you said I think you’re a senior in high school 1968 so yeah 3 or 4 years prior that integration would’ve started happening in the schools or desegregation. What was that sort of experience like?

(Hughes)

Integration and desegration, OK actually integration in Danville started in ’64, ’65 school year I dropped out of school, I left school in ’66 and went back in '67, late part of ’67 but integration, it was different here in lotta ways, it wasn’t like down south where they had to have martial law and all that, it wasn’t like that, but it was different. the Black school kids in the Black school here, biggest percentage of them didn’t want to leave Bate School, didn’t want to give up, you know, and I’m sure it was at the Danville High School it was different for the first few years there was no one… let me go back to another point… five qualified Black teachers, that was men teachers, that was part of the Bate School was not hired at Danville, wasn’t even given an interview, I don’t think, at Danville High School… this is not, not, documented but everybody knows the real reason that they did not get an interview was because the administration or the Board of Education or whoever was in charge of hiring these folk was, was under a lot of pressure not to because they didn’t want Black men teaching White girls… just it was one of the things that . . . First few years there was no Blacks invited to homecoming as a homecoming queen that was Black, was no Black cheerleaders, or they had to change, you know, it was it was difficult but it wasn’t unbearable difficult but it was difficult because the administration, board education was all old school and they, they gave as much as they had to go but they didn’t offer a lot of different.

(Breiter)

So I feel like we keep hearing about Mr. Bate who was he in the community and what was his importance in the housing projects and the middle school in the high school?

(Hughes)

He, Dr. Bate was, I think, if it hadn’t been for his persistance and his drive to make sure that all Black the Black folks had education better, there wouldn’t be, a lot of folks wouldn’t have one, you know. He was the former slave. He started a one room school with with with six people, I think it was six something, and when he left the school there was 21 rooms, 600 people graduating, he was very persistent in education and he was the drive behind that, that's why [phone ringing] I'm sorry, busy man (chuckle). Professor Bate was a great man, to say the least, you know, if you look at it, that building or the first building then I think 1928 the second building that would’ve looked like before and after the original Bate School they changed it now… you know, I want to make sure I answer the question on this fact that he was just somebody that hired the best teachers and his drive resulted in, lotta folks going to college, I guess I’m trying to answer your question.

(Kaden)

How would you say the integration process was different in the school system than in just Danville and Boyle County?

(Hughes)

OK, that's a point. The school integrated but the city didn't. The kids was kind of put in a position of making sure that, you know, that they had to deal with it because you still. This is the scenario that I always use, I always say that one of my best friends is a guy named Roy Edison, we would sit together when the schools integrated, me and him wwould set together and right til today he’s one my friends I have in life. But here’s the thing, you could sit there, and I always use this scenario, just say me and you (referencing Holden), I'm gonna take me and you. We at school we classmates, right? Ind you say to me or I say to you, man, what you doing this weekend so let’s go to the movies and you say OK. But when we get to the movies on Main Street and we, we, you know we classmates, Black and White classmates, we go to the movies right here on Main Street I have to go to the right here and get a ticket you have to go on the other side and get a ticket. We get inside the movies and you have, you know, there’s a concession stand I had to buy food on the side of concession stand, you had to buy food from the other side. When we get ready to go inside to watch the movie, you have to go sit downstairs, I have to go in the balcony and sit. I gotta use the bathroom, you gotta use bathroom. Bathroom facilities right here. I have to leave the theater and walk down the street to use the bathroom, becase I wasn’t allowed to use the bathroom in the theater. That’s after the schools have integrated, you know. Or I can't . . . or we. . . another scenario would be, you know, it was a restaurant right there on the corner of Second Street and Main, I could not. . . after we watch the movies, you could go in there and get a hamburger but I have to wait outside for you to bring my hamburger outside. That was a scenario that we face as kids before integration, you know, and then I think, I don’t know, what year was great it was a law passed restaurants had had to allow it. And eventually, there were two other theaters - there was a building right here right across the street with a theater, called the State Theater, they didn’t allow Blacks to attend… there was another one on our side of town called the Town Theater it’s good for you at three theaters only one allowed Blacks to attend, but you had to sit in the balcony. By, ’68 I think, that had all changed but they all talk about ’64, integration in school came even before city integration.

(Kaden)

So I read in 1964 that, correct me if I’m wrong, you and some other classmates from Bate went on a bus to Frankfort for the MLK march?

(Hughes)

Yea, uh, OK, yeah we did, in 1964, right before the end of it, all of us, me and my classmates, and that was the first time that I actually witnessed progress or actually, saw there is a change, it’s going to come, when it’s gonna you don’t know, what is going on and it was there you know, it was really big, and it changed - on the way back, you know, just happy, but then you get back to Danville and you still facing, you know… another thing that I left here in '68 to go to Marine Corps Boot Camp, but even in ’67, even to that point, interracial dating was looked upon, and there was a young lady, a young White lady, White girl, and a Black guy that dated at Danville High School and they was under so much pressure that her parents had to move out to Danville to just escape the pressure, and he (the guy) ended up getting put out of and had to leave school, you know, so and I get to Los Angeles and ’68 and as you know Black and White, you know, you know, what’s going on you know why is like that? But you gotta understand where we live in Kentucky, Kentucky hadn’t integrated in all manners.

(Shofner)

You’ve mentioned your service in the Marines and stuff and being in the Vietnam war, just tell us whatever you’d like about that…

(Hghes)

(chuckles) Wow [pause] Vietnam was, you know, there’s a lot of ways you can describe that… you go from, you know, just being an every-day person to go on into service and, you know, the first part of service is really hard to pass, then you get to Vietnam… I know how to describe it, I’m trying to put it, you know, it was an eye opening situation and I guess you could say, you know, because you didn’t know why you was there, you know. And you wasn’t winning, you know, and people were diyng and because, you know, because somebody higher up was, you know, saying do this or do that. And it was rough far as um, I can tell you about– um I did a lot of patrols and it was in firefights an um, one particular firefight that I remember and uh, one of my friends we still talk, couple people that I was in that firefight with, have already passed on but uh there was a place called the Leprosarium– was uh a compound and my squad, which was called Charlie Squad, uh we went out on a patrol that day. You gotta know the people you gotta know the people. And we went out on patrol that day and this one guy had just got into the squad and he would . . . what the little Vietnamese kids would do, they would run up to you and say Marine you give me food give, me food give, me food and uhm and well of course they really was doin with the food, they act like they was hungry but they was really getting it to sell to help their families and stuff and one guy just been there, we called him "Big Red", hadn’t been there too long he took a can of food out and said “you want this food?” and the little kid said “yeah yeah I want the food” he opens the food and pours it on the ground and we told him, said, you shouldn’t of did that, that’s disrespecting, you know cause, you could be sitting beside somebody that was a Communist and you would never know. We get back to the compound at night– at night time it’s dark, it’s it’s pitch dark. And uh this one squad that was supposed to go out and set up an ambush to catch anybody that’s coming through, coming towards us but they didn’t go there. There was a thing called "sandbagging." Sandbagging was where you supposed to go here but you go here and you call back in like - I’m all the way out here but they was right there. So, my twenty-first birthday we just got through doin a little celebration at the compound so we setting know so all of a sudden bout 1 o'clock in the mornin and you can read this, it’s documented, we see these four people coming in with helmets on and flight jackets and the word for stop is “chứ hồi” ya know "stop", they didn’t stop they just kept comin you know and uh when they gotta about from here to that door one of the guys realized that’s Vietcong, we called them VC, you know, "that’s VC," so everybody starts shooting at them, you know, and then all of a sudden, man, all Hell breaks loose. Uh there’s a thing called "zappers"– zappers would tie charges around they already know they gonna die– they already done commited theyself to die– so they tied chargers around and they just come and jump in the wire and blow a hole in the wire so the rest of the people could get through. So it was just us firefighting, it seemed like it started 1 o’clock and when the firefight ended– it seemed like it was only a hour, but it when it ended it was daylight. So we fought for four or five hours just out of not knowing what it was you know that was one of the terroristic things that Vietnam was– the other times Vietnam sometimes wasn’t as bad, and it depended on what part of 'Nam you was in, you was in - some of the north they fought everyday, we didn’t fight everyday but the times we did fight was pretty horific.

Zach: I would like to say thank you for your service. And then also, was there any form of segregation or racial tensions while you were in the War?

Michael: After Martin Luther King Jr. got killed, uhm, Black Power became… uh the word I’m trying to use, it was something that people used, ya know– let me back up, Black Power became the signal for what Black people started to relate to our– it made it feel like you know, like there’s a song by James Brown called “Say it Loud I’m Black and I’m Proud” and it kinda gave Black folks uh a pride, they stepped up. But Black Power was so prevalent in Vietnam, you know, (phone rings - it's my wife, no, it's fine, don't worry, don't worry) and uh and there was such a thing as the “dap” and the dap was when two Black guys was doing all this and that– that was the way of signaling Plack Power ya know you go and you do that and do that Black Power thing and so that was big and I– me, coming from a place that a big bunch of my friends were White, you know what I'm saying, I was never somebody– I went along but I never sold out to it, I guess you could say that sometimes you have go along with something, you know, but uhm but I know that uhm there was still a lot of racial– I think I got passed over for a couple promotions because of people -White Lieutenants that was prejudice you know and I knew that I had to, before I left Nam, I had to go demand that I was given– he was given, my Lieuteuant had uh had tried to give my stripe to somebody that already had a stripe– I had to protest and finally got it right before I left Nam, you know, there was that there, there was racial, you know, people that were in the service.

Sawyer: So I think that, with the Vietnam War and back home in America you hear a lot about the country and citizens being generally discontent about the war. Was that different in the Black community than it was in the rest of the nation?

Michael: Uhhh, not as much, not as much, I mean nobody wanted to go, nobody wanted to you know, you fought, most of us fought because, you know, uh, a lot of people ended up in 'Nam because they didn’t have a choice. You know what I’m saying, they didn’t have you know, because you got drafted, you know, you got drafted you had to go to service you couldn't go to college. You ended up in 'Nam or ended up in the service, so there was a lot of people there just because they didn’t have a choice to not go. I don't know if I answered your question.

Kaden: So did Danville feel different after you came back?

Michael: Yeah, yeah, somewhat. It still wasn’t great but some of the racial barriers had been removed. A lot of people– I never felt ya know a lot of people said we didn’t get the recognition that Vietnam– coming out of Vietnam we didn’t get the recognition that we should have so– but I never felt that I was just glad to get out of the service and come home.

Sawyer: Uh, what was the healthcare like in Danville growing up and when you got back from the Vietnam war, like hospitals, were they segregated, different hospitals?

Michael: Not after the war, early, in the early early years there were. Blacks was separated, was treated in separate quarters and stuff– most of that was probably in the 20’s and 30’s, 40’s, 50’s. But mostly– uhm, I think it’s still there, to some degree.

Student: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to ask before we wrap it up?

Kaden: That was around the time of urban renewal, so, could you talk about maybe like the mood concerning urban renewal– what was the general public's feeling?

Michael: They, uh, in the Black community– most of the urban renewal, they was hoping for was things that didn’t materialize. Urban renewal come in - what we gonna make this– and a lot of Black people lived in dissipated houses, but even though they lived in dissipated houses there was community. I mean there was in each of those there was communities there was uh you know, there was a love that you can’t buy, it was there and when that was taken away or destroyed the culture of the small community. You know but uh they was hoping for nice houses– promises that were broken and uh some people did well, because some people ya know– but most the folks didn’t get, urban renewal didn’t improve their lives– mostly took away from and destroyed a culture that Black folks have not recovered from at all.

Kaden: Is there anything else you want to mention?

Michael: I just uh, hope that I shared something that– all the work we’re doin in the African American Historical Society– Jeff has been able to uh bring to– the format that we’ve been able to create in the last three or four years I hope that it is something that is beneficial to you guys and thirty years from now, forty years from now, remember you know sitting down and talking about and keeping those, keeping that you know into your spirit and into your heart.

Shenton: And one more question if you don’t mind, one thing that I don’t think you and I have ever really talked about– you’ve talked a lot about your music career, you've talked about Vietnam quite a bit. What other kinds of work did you do in the decades after you got back from Vietnam? What other jobs or careers, what did you do?

Michael: Oh wow, I was going to say something silly, I ain't going to say it (laughter). When I first got back from 'Nam I worked, mostly I worked construction. I worked construction a lot, I worked in factories I done all kind of work, I worked as a security guard for a lot of years and uh just basically, you know, nothing, you know I went to Eastern for about a year and I wish I– I wasn’t really ready, I should've been but I wish I would have pursued education. That’s the thing, education is the thing. And that’s what I encourage you to do– what y'all are doing right now will pay off many many years from now you know that’s what I wish I had of done I wish a lot of Black folks I knew could've have experienced a better education type environment because I think it makes a difference you know I, I hope that you know– I’m 74 years old and now I it’s probably too late for me to really do anything that I have missed, you know, but this is why I do what I do now.

Holden: Well we all really appreciate it Mr. Hughes, and we wanna thank you for your time and for ya know being willing to share your story and your history with us.

Michael: I appreciate you guys.

Sawyer: Means a lot, it was great talking to you.