Shirley Owsley

Parts of this transcript was autogenerated and there may be errors.

CE: So my name is Claire Edelen and today I'm interviewing Shirley Owlsley who lived in Danville during the 1960s. I'm here with Joseph Falcon. Michael Hughes and Jeff Shenton.And today's date isApril 14th, 2022. And we're recording this interview in the Danville Boyle County AfricanAmerican Historical Society building. Today will be discussing Shirley Owlsley’s experiences during the process of urban renewal in Danville, Kentucky

JF:Alrighty, well, I would like to start off with beginning sort of introducing ourselves real quick. We already set our names: Joseph and Claire. I'm from Louisville, Kentucky from the west side. And Claire?

CE: I'm from Bardstown. Not too far.

JF: Yeah, so we're both native Kentuckians. I like to start off with, like, if you were born here in Danville or if you came from anywhere else in Kentucky. SO: I was-Garrard County, Lancaster, Kentucky, JF: Lancaster, Kentucky?And that's like… SO: Ten miles from here. JF:Alright. How would you say that you sort of ended up here in Danville?

SO: Well, I get married when I was 19. I've been def-I moved to Danville when I was about 19 JF: 19, and what were sort of those beginning circumstances, you know, like how what were your first impressions of Danville back then, at 19?

SO: Well, I like Danville. Yeah, it's a progressive place. Yeah.

CE: What-what year was it? That you got married and moved to Danville?

SO: ‘55. JF:And it was your husband-did he live in Danville as well? Or did he come from elsewhere?

SO: Well he lived here, but he came from Stanford, Kentucky.

CE: So when you moved to Danville and the process of urban renewal was occurring in the 60s, was there a lot of kind of buildup to that process or did it seem to somewhat begin out of nowhere?

SO: Well to me it seemed like it-beginning out of nowhere. Yeah. You just-I don't know. because it-it just well that's when everyone moved to Stanford because they took the property we had and we had to move.

CE: Was that-did that situation with the property happen before you got married or after you had been married?

SO: Well I had-I had lived here about about 28 years when that urban renewal came through.

CE: Was-was losing your property the first instance of urban renewal you can remember or were things that happened beforehand?

SO: Well-it was already started down where Centre College is. So, there, I believe it already started down there before it was down where I came from-where I lived. I lived on South 3rd.

CE: Was Centre’s influence at the time of a positive one or what was your perspective on Centre's presence?

SO: Well, I don't know if I just-it was just something that the urban renewal did.

CE: So, Centre’s presence-did that impact neighborhoods or more of businesses?

SO: Oh, it made the neighborhood different. Yeah, I don’t have no problems with Centre ‘cause I worked there 30 years.

JF: What did you do at Centre?

SO: Custodian. Well, I think they called it physical plant-now. It's custodian. So a lot different, now, though, then when I was started

CE: When did you start working with Centre?

SO: In the seventies, I think it was '69 or '70 when I started there.

JS: Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like to work at Centre? Like what did you do on a daily basis? And who did you work with and who did you work for?

SO: Well, JB Wilkerson was my, uh, supervisor and, let’s see, Wayne King. And I can’t think of the other guy’s name. But when I first started, you had to go in they rooms.And then later on they fix-for the students-because trash and-you had to clean the bathrooms, hallways, and steps. But the later on, you didn't have to go into room and that made it better because all people wouldn't go in the room and do what they supposed to, they'd be otherwise. Yeah. So I worked on Main Street first. See, I came back on which one-I didn’t work in Yerkes I worked on this one at the other end and then I went to Wiseman. I worked there ‘till I finished.

CE: When you finished your work at Center, did you retire? Or did you start working elsewhere?

SO: No, I retired. 65.

CE: Would you mind sharing a little bit of your experience, you know, growing up in Garrard County and just a little bit maybe about your childhood?

SO: Well, it was eight of us in the family and we lived on a farm and we did farm work. Well, I didn’t do too much but we had animals and tobacco and stuff and went to school. That was about it. Probably through 12th grade.

MH:At, Garrard County? I mean, what school did you graduate? It was Mason when I quit.

MH: Black school.

SO: Yeah.

CE: When you moved to Danville, did any of your siblings move to Danville with you or did you all just end up going to different places?

SO: Did what now?

CE: I'm sorry. When you moved to Danville, did any of your family also move to Danville?

SO: Well, I had a brother that lived here then, but I had a cousin that lived here too, already lived here.

CE: Did, how was your brother's experience in Danville when he moved here?

SO: Well he worked for the Boyle block. That’s all I know. He worked. Yeah.

CE: Did the rest of your siblings end up in the sort of-this area of Kentucky, or did they end up elsewhere?

SO: Well, they was in Louisville and Berea some of them still live in Lancaster. Yeah. Then, I had a brother who went to Colorado. Yeah. That’s it

JS: Can you tell us a bit about what it was like to grow up on a farm back before the 1950s? What was-what was that-What was that like? It seems like a very different experience than young people would have today. So, what was-what was that like?

SO: Well to me, well some people that lived on the farm was poor. I had some family that lived next to us. They had two kids. We had eight kids. They have to come to my house-our house for food, but we always had, you know, the animals and chickens and cows. Cause I work with a girl and she says she didn't know what fried chicken was unless for her mother, brought it from work. I never experienced that, I knew, you know, pork chops now, that was. So I guess I lived pretty good life.

JS: Did you have were you was your family selling crops as well? Or was it just-were you growing things just for the family or was it was it also for you for sale?

SO: Well he sold tobacco.

JS: What did that-do you know what that process was like of, were you involved in harvesting and packing and selling tobacco, too? Or how that, what are the kinds of work you’d do on the farm?

SO: He just made us help strip, we didn't have to do the plowing and all that mess. We had it easy.

JS: What is what is the process of stripping? Can you can you describe what that process is like? I'm not familiar with that.

SO: Okay, I think then they pulled it off the stalk you know and put it in five grades and then they tied it up then they put it up in a thing, called it a press or something.And then they put it in there. Well they had to hang it in the barn and you know stuff first and let it cure.And then they would take it to the market after they processed it. But I never did have to plough or nothing like that. No [unintelligible] and tractors and stuff. I guess I had it easy, huh? Mmm. Farm life is good.

MH: There was [unintelligible] hands. I know, you know, I did a little bit of that myself. Yeah, there was a different grades they called, I know. Red.

SO: Red and Bright. And f-What was that? You know that raggedy part on the end?

MH: That’s trash.

SO: Yeah.Trash or something. Yeah.

JS: What was the process of selling that like? So did you have to tran-did your family have to transport it to a market or do people come to buy it from-from you directly?

SO: Well, you had to take it to a warehouse. Back then, I think most people took it to Lexington, Danville, and Somerset. Well I don’t know if Somerset had it or not but I know Danville and Lexington.

JS: Did all of your family's income come from selling tobacco or the other-other types of income that you're your parents had?

SO: That's all we ever-he had some animals, some to, you know, they would take and sell them.And back then you could, you could sell milk. Let’s see, I think… you had to keep it cool and then this milk truck would come by or so often and pick it up. You know. You could sell that milk and eggs, chickens, you had take them to town to the market. But that milk you had to keep it cool and a truck come along and pick it up.

JS:And how were you involved in that? What was your role in in any, in any of that-was that just your older relatives? Or is it, were you involved in that?

SO:My father used to do it all. I didn't milk no cows cause he wouldn’t let me.

JS: You seemed to have it pretty good, I guess!

SO: Yeah. Cause me and my sister. We always, uh, the cow would, do y’all know what it does when you get ready to milk it? It would jerk and daddy said y'all get out of here so that set us right off.

JS: Were there other farm families around you that you spent time with? What was your social network like when you were growing up before you came to Danville?

SO: Well we lived, well he always lived on people's farms. You know, like you had to move, like we lived way down in, like one day we moved down on Lexington Road and I went to school there from sixth grade to the 12th. I didn't have to go to no one rooms school because I think I started but then we moved, and I went to city school 12 years. Yeah.

JS: So your family was living on the land. Your family didn't own that land you moved, you were moving from farm to far?

SO:Yeah, he just rented, yeah we lived on this farm. Oh, one of them was a horse farm and, you know, he raised the tobacco and helped do the hay and stuff like that. And then in 1949 daddy bought his own farm. So my brother still lives there now.

JS: Do you remember anything about the relationship that your dad, your father, had with the the owners of the farms you lived on before he bought his own farm?

SO: Well he had good relationship with, you know, you a good relationship.

JS: You said he would do, he would do farm work for the owner, but was he-was he-was it a rental agreement? Who was he paying for, with money? Or was it just through, just the work on the farm that he-did that pay for the rent on the on the farm? Do you know?

SO: Well, well, he didn't pay no rent. He just worked for them. Yeah.

MH: I think it was called, kind of called sharecropping.

SO: Something. I don't know what it was. Cause when they-

MH: It's kind of arrangements that was, you know, a lot of people had that arrangements of share cropping, you worked on the farm and got part in, part of whatever revenue came in. I don't know if that was, okay, but I know a lot of people did that.

JF:And then after living on the farm, how did you go about marrying your husband? You know, 49 to 55. That's not too far. It's-I'm wondering how’d y'all meet and how’d y’all end up marrying?

16:32 SO: Well, let’s see how did we meet…well me and my sisters were free, we used to come to Danville all the time and they had a rest, I mean how did, what was? The American Legion or Swingland?

MH: Yeah. Swingland.

SO: So yeah. I think it was the American Legion we used to come there. They'd have music and stuff right, I think that's how we... It’s down Second Street here. It's not there no more, but that's where it was at.

CE: How soon after you all met, did you, you know, eventually get together and think about getting married?

SO: Probably two or three years.

JS: So you move to Danville and then what kind of, so what brought you and your husband to Danville initially? What was, was it work that he, that he had or work that he wanted to do here in Danville?

SO: Well he already lived here and he worked here.

JS: Okay.

SO: Yeah.

JS: What was his, what was his work?

SO: Oh, let me see, he worked for-it was a man, head of a service station. Mmm...guess it's on the next corner. Across from where the church is, over at the Baptist Church and he worked for that guy and he drove a truck for him. Yeah. He drove a truck and then we had a coal yard. Which was, was self-employed. We had a coal yard.

JS: Well a coal yard is probably something, another thing that people aren't probably too familiar with any more. Can you describe?

SO: Haha, coal yard… well we was…it was 50 cent a tub, and all up through here was houses. And all down here where this Constitution Square…it was all houses and that was first street. All in there… Second Street and First Street. And all them people lived there, we sold them coal. You couldn't believe 50 cents a tub.

MH: Where was the coal yard, okay, where was the coal yard located?

SO: Oh, down there where we lived at.

MH: On Third Street?

SO: Yeah. I brought a picture of it… of the sign… where had the sign. Then we uh, one of my daughters, she, she started doing papers when she was in bout the… bout the fourth-I mean seven years old. Then my son did the papers too. I did papers for 40 years. We had a coal yard.

MH: You know, you done hold this out on me, this uh, you know, you done held this out on me.

SO: Haha, yeah, well you know what? I’ve been up all the morning trying to find you somethin. I found you this too.

JS: So, how did the coal yard work? Did people bring a tub to you?

SO: You had a tub and then it sold… a ton of coal…I think was about $10. But you had to go up in the mountains. We went to Manchester, Kentucky and then you'd have to go over there and haul it back. I should have brought a picture of the truck he used to haul it in. But uh…oh you said I held that one back?

MH: Yeah, you held that one back on me.

SO: Haha, and then you'd haul it. We had, we had a coal yard down on Third Street where we lived. Yeah. So we did that. And then my kids, well, my son, he had the paper, but he didn’t like to collect-collect the paper, the Advocate Messenger. Well, this don’t put, it don’t put… I seen in paper where they started another office here. But they used to be down there on Fourth Street, and it was 15 cents or… bout a quarter a week and when I quit it was 12, 15 dollars a month.

JS: So you would actually haul the coal. Where did you, where did you get the coal?

SO: Manchester in the mountains. Have you ever heard of Manchester, Kentucky?

JS: Uh-huh.

SO: Yeah we went to Manchester.

JS: Were there suppliers there? I mean, there were mines there and…?

SO: Yeah it was mines, and you had to go and haul it back in trucks. For some of-it was coal miner people then, that uh, I mean, it was people up there that would bring it.

JS: And would you deliver the coal or would people come and get it from you in small amounts?

SO: Well some of it you had to deliver. Yeah.

MH: It was 50 cents a tub, you said?

SO: Yeah you had metal tubs…

MH: Yeah.

SO: …that you go down [unintelligible] and back, that was 50 cents atub. And some people make you so mad, and me and the kids would… it would be dark. And they’d say “Oh it’s so cold!” We need some… go and take them people a tub of coal.

MH: And it was… how much you say it was a ton? Was... Did y’all buy it by the ton?

SO: Yeah. It must have been about ten dollars. Now…I…I don’t know what coal is now.

MH: I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know any people who use coal.

SO: No. Cause, see the coal thing…uh…they used to have they hve coal here on Burgin Road. They don't do it anymore cause they…

MH: Oh yeah.

SO: For the lights. Yeah. And stoker, or we used stoker. Stoker is to cure tobacco with. They take it, put it in a thing and set it and set it up under the tobacco when they bring it from the field. And it dried, you know, makes it cure up. Stoker looks just like like charcoal. You ever see stoker? It looked like charcoal

MH: I've heard of it but I don't think I've ever seen it. I know of it being used. I know I've heard of it.

JS: So you would cure the tobacco with the coal, the stoker coal then you put it in the barns, is that how it would work? Or would you cure it in the barns?

SO: Well, my daddy just opened his barn doors and let it just cure. But now some people wanted to cure it fast. They bought this stuff.

MH: So they could get it ready for the market earlier.

SO: For the market earlier.

CE: I'm curious, just, this is switching gears a little bit. You mentioned your children, and I'm curious about your experience with motherhood here in Danville.

SO: Well it was good. I had four kids, oh, I had four kids by the time I was 25, but I really enjoyed them. I grew up with them. Then we [unintelligible]... then they, uh, they helped us out. They, well, they used to go out like cut yards, but anyway we did them paper…and then they was gone. One girl did hers until she was 12th grade. The boy. He said he didn't want it because he didn't like to collect. So I took it. So I sent three girls to college, doing that, of all four. I bought two brand new cars because the paper route wore out my cars. So I put three girls through college. The boy didn't want to go.

MH: You telling the names? Tell the names.

SO: Oh, the boy’s named James Owlsley Junior. And then I got one girl that lives in Bloomington, Indiana. She’s um… let me see… she retired. She worked with computers. She worked for Hoosiers Energy. She was the bookkeeper. So she worked, she's turned, 60…62 She retired this year, that's my youngest daughter and then I got another daughter that lives in Indianapolis. She was a probation parole officer. Then I got one that lives in Nashville. She worked for a telephone company till she retired. So, all of them had jobs.

CE: Do you have grandchildren?

SO: Yeah, I got about about eight grandkids? Let’s see… I have some great-grandkids, I got five, six of them.

CE: Were your children growing up during this urban renewal period?

26:50 SO: Yeah. Well they was out of school... let me see. . . 

MH: I think they were…

SO: They were out of school.

MH: They were outside of urban renewal…

SO: Yeah, because they, you know, they was already out of school.

JF: You mentioned that you lived in Lancaster and then you were, the urban renewal happened over there, and then you were displaced in Danville?

SO: No, urban renewal came after I, I’ve lived over here. I lived over here about 28 years before the urban renewal.

JF: Mmm, okay.

SO: I can't believe I've been in Stanford for 42. That's how long this been with the urban renewal come through.

MH: I don't think Garrard County went through a urban renewal?

SO: Yeah, it did.

MH: Did it?

SO: You know, over where they called the Shoot?

MH: Oh the Shoot yeah, yeah.

SO: I can't believe it that they are urban renewal was forty two years ago. I've been in Stanford 42 years. We bought a house Stanford, in Stanford. But I really like Danville. I thought I was couldn't take it cause that Stanford feel like it was just slow to me.

SO: So I always say when I want to go to the city, I come to Stanford. Because I live in a good neighborhood, it don't take me about 10 minutes to drive over here. But after I done got used to it, the people [unintelligible] over there.

JS: Can you tell us a little bit about the process that the urban renewal, the people who are part of urban renewal went through to take people's properties, or to get people's properties? Can tell us a little bit specifically about how that process worked?

SO: To me, I don't think Guy, some people might’ve liked Guy Best, I don’t think, he didn’t do right cause of my bathroom needed a fixing and I paid almost $2,000 to get that bathroom fixed. And he claimed that he's gonna give me the, my money back. He didn't give me nothing. Urban renewal didn't do nothing. I don't think, they just took it. Some people they might’ve.

MH: This is which house you talking about?

SO: I'm talking about the house we lived in.

MH: Down on Third Street?

SO: Third Street.

MH: And we talking about Guy Best?

SO: Yeah.

MH: Who was the head of…

SO: Yeah, Guy Best is right off here on Main Street, he had a office, I don't think he gave, he didn't give you what he should have. I don't think.

JS: Is your family interfacing directly with Guy Best in his office, or did he have other people who are working for him? Or how exactly did that process play out for you? Who did you actually talk to about-

SO: Well, I don’t know, who was it when the urban renewal come through? But he was, this Guy Best, was over it.

MH: He did most of them.

SO: Most of the work.

MH: The negotiations and stuff. From what I know.

SO: But on this thing, the urban renewal, you know, that money that they gave you if you bought property. Well, that was a, that was a gift. Cause my house, if I'd have bought it, we just gave auction for that house that I got now. I gave, it was, I gave 30,000 for auction. And urban renewal gave 15,000 dollars if you bought properties. It wasn’t bad, because I got a nice house. But it sold for auction. Now you can give 30,000 for it. Mike, was a vouch for me, it's a nice place, isn’t it?

MH: Yeah, really nice. Mmm.

SO: Yeah all of that Centre College took in all of that over there. The streets down on that side.

JS: That was South Third? Is that what you’re talking about? That.

SO: Well, now over where Centre College is now, on the Northside.

JS: Where Seventh Street was before?

MH: Yeah. Seventh Street

SO: Yeah, all that over in there.

JS: That happened, that happened first, didn't it?

SO: Yeah that happen first, then some of them houses is new they put up there. I guess, is Seventh Street, is that still named Seventh Street? St. Mildreds Court?

MH: Yeah, Swope Drive I think.

SO: Yeah.

MH: But they renamed it.

JS: Do you know anything about how, what the process that, that earlier process was? Was Guy Best part of that urban renewal process too? Or who was, you know…

SO: I guessing whoever it was, but I can't tell you who I was, you know how it was, but he was the man for it.

MH: He was a name everybody knew, yeah.

SO: But like I said, I don't have no kick on Centre College because that's how I live now. Yeah. That’s how I’m living now. Yeah, I wasn't bad at all. The only thing, this one time, I had boys and everyday when I cleaned the trashcan and fix it up, somebody would go wet in it. So I told their RA that I knew they did it cause it was hot. He said, well, no [unintelligible] But anyways, they did put a snake in my closet one time.

SO: I had boys, I had good boys. I didn’t get to work in no fraternity house. Cause they was kind of rough over there, I didn't have to work over there. Well I think is a lot different than it was when I was over there.

JS: Were you involved in the church communities in Danville? Was that part of your life?

SO: Yeah, I go to church over here at First Baptist.

JS: Can you tell us a little bit about the, the social aspect of the church and how you're involved in the church. What was, what's, what's important about the church community to you?

SO: Well, I'm not involved in too much with what to do but I just like the people in the community. Yeah, I like the church, I guess I been going there fifty years.

34:33 CE: Did you grow up with a strong church connection?

SO: Yeah, I used to go to a little country church called Buckeye, over in Garrard County. It’s still there, I think it’s just five members now, but they still have it.

MH: Most of those churches are like that.

SO: Yeah.

MH: Countryside, four, five, the ones are still surviving. No more than, five or ten members. Some of the preachers pass through two and three different churches. You know, some of them wanna have church, this place one week, then they'll go to…

SO: Yeah.

MH: …a other church next week. So, every other week.

SO: But it’s been pretty, now, last year, somebody they had just bought new equipment for their dining room, and somebody went there and stole all of them, the stoves and everything. Refrigerators…

MH:At Buckeye?

SO: Yeah, stole every bit of it. And it was brand new. They just had got it. And then all this COVID thing come in, you know, and they, they have never replaced it because they don't get to go as much.

MH: Was you-um, One of the things that was so big for my experience back then was Rally Sundays.

SO: Yeah. Yeah. I missed that going to…

MH: You want to talk about that?

SO: You know, go into the different things that they have. At the Methodist Church. I love this. I could join it. I guess I'll guess I'll stay here. But I love, I liked the Methodist Church there.

JS: So what happened on a Rally Sunday? What was the Rally Sunday like?

SO: Well, there would just be a gathering, you know, they would come from different churches and they have, I guess, I don't know what you call it, a potluck dinner or they just have dinner and they invite other churches and have that, yeah.

MH: When I was young, Rally Sundays was big because that's where all the girls would be. I mean it's, it's how it is. And then each, every, it would last from August, you had started first of August on into like October 7th, October, there was Rallies every Sunday somewhere.

JS: Did those center on the food? That was, that, would people bring food to those functions?

MH: They do, provided food.

SO: Yeah. Whatever church was there, church, that they provided the food.

JS: Can you talk a little bit about, about the food that you grew up with? What kinds of, you talked about the animals before, but these Rally Sundays, what or other events? What kinds of food were people making?

SO: Well, I guess they call it soul food. They had green beans, fried chicken, all that.

MH: It wasn't a Rally if there wasn’t fried chicken.

JS: That was it, right?

MH: Fried chicken was always main, was the main meat anyway, you know, and everything that went around it, green beans, corned mutton, whatever. Some of the churches, some of the churches used, used to charge for…

SO: …charge for…

MH: …meals, and I think later on they started giving them.

SO: Then some churches would have, I never did like this stuff on it. They would kill that sheep, that mutton or something. And I never did like it because there was the smell. Yes.

MH: [unintelligible]

JS: Were you part of any other social organizations, or clubs, or what other kinds of hobbies did you have outside of, you know, working and raising your children? What things did you do when you're living in Danville?

SO: Well, I didn’t do too much, because I had to stay home with them kids. But I had some friends that I always liked to visit and then we’d go, we’d have stuff. And then they had clubs here. Oh, I'd always get invited to if they had something. Trips they had, you know like, trips. It was the Kentucky Club, I think I went to Detroit twice with them, but if they had something and I, and casino. I been to [unintelligible] quite a few times, they would take, you know, buses and go, I liked that.

JS: These were the social clubs that were here. Is that what you were talking about?

SO: Yeah.

MH: Yeah.

SO: I wasn’t too much of a party person. Like some people! I enjoyed life.

JS: What were those events like? What kinds of things would people do at those, at the functions that the clubs would put on?

SO: Well, they would have a band and then they would have a banquet, you know. They'd have somebody and then they'd have a band entertain. Yeah, it was…

JS: How many people would attend one of these, one of these events? Was it, was it a lot of people?

SO: Well, guess about a hundred, might be about a hundred.

MH: I think a lot depending on what clubs…

SO: …what clubs…

MH: …some clubs was more popular and people more, they get more people than some clubs

SO: And then they would entertain at they house too. Yeah, it was just something to do. I never did like to play cards either.

JS: They would entertain at the house of somebody who was, who's part of the club or they had a clubhouse?

SO: Yeah, they would, you know, entertain. When they had they club meetings and they would invite, you know, a guest. Yeah.

CE: Did you say that you went to Detroit with these groups a few times?

SO: Yeah, the Kentucky Club. I think the Kentucky Club was what? Ohio? You remember the Kentucky Club?

MH: Yeah, they was kind of, they got kind of international…

SO: *International* and they would go different places.

MH: They was more connected.

SO: Yeah.

MH: You know, statewide and on out of state.

SO: They would hire, you know, a bus, then they'd go.

CE: What were those? Oh sorry.

SO: Mm?

CE: What were those trips like to Detroit? What did you all do when you went on your trips?

42:30 SO: Oh, see what did we do… but they entertained you, I don't know what, we went over in Canada while we was were. Anyway, they’d entertain the each, each thing they’d entertain with different ways, each time. Yeah. Whatever town they was in. Cause like, if it was in Danville, well, Danville would entertain them with different stuff.

JS: So you went to school in an all-black school, you said, is that, that's right? And then by the time you had children and they went to high school, the schools had been desegregated, is that, is that right?

SO: My two youngest ones went through fourth grade at Bate. And then my youngest girl, she didn’t have to go into all-black school. She started at Jennie Rogers. Yeah, her and my son, they went to a mixed school.

JS: And did you think that they had a different experience since some of your, some of your children started out in segregated schools and then others didn't, so it, was their experience different? Or did you notice a difference between those two experiences?

SO: Well, they did good. They, you know, yeah, they did alright with it. Because they were small, you know, and they didn't go over a lot, the first two did. But, you know, after that, Danville High School. Cause my girls was in the Girl Scouts and I didn’t have no problem with it. Just one time. One of our girls, I don't know, they, this white boy went to the this little store which was the side he went, and I don't know. He said they dropped a pop bottle on him or something. Her and another girl. So they didn't want to send him home, they wanted to send my girl home for a week and I said if you send her, you send him. So they didn't send her home. He said they dropped the pop bottle on him. But as far as, my kids didn’t have no problem. That I know of.

JS: Do you remember what, that with the discussion of desegregating the schools in the early 60s was like here in Danville, do have any memory of that discussion and how it, how it went here in Danville?

SO: Well, you know, I guess it upset some people. But, that's just according to how people reacted to it, I think, myself.

JS: Do you remember particular ways in which people were upset by that, at that discussion? You had said some people were upset.

SO: Well they just wanted to, I don't know. 'Cause as far as the sports and things, cause I got a grandson, he did good, cause he was later.  But anyway, he did good at school here. Because he's a, he's, he's a coach in West Virginia now, for West Virginia College. But, he did school, he did all that stuff. His school teachers was good. And I guess they all learned something because they all did good. Cause they went to school, now. So, all of mine did good, they got good jobs.

CE: You said your, your three girls went to college? What was that process like, with applying to college for them?

SO: Well they applied for that. But they got, they got, money grants to go. Cynthy went to the one in Nashville. She went to Tennessee State, and Ruby went to Western two years, but she partied too much, so. Then she went to K. State and finished. And the youngest girl she went four years at K. State. But I really like Western, Western you had to have a higher percentage than you did Frankfort and now in Tennessee State too. I think Tennessee State was bout three point. But anybody she didn't quit, she just went on to finish. Like us where they went to school.

CE: And you mentioned your grandson, did you say he coaches at West Virginia now?

SO: Mhmm.

CE: What does he coach?

SO: He's a, football. Yeah, he taught out here to Boyle County, then he went to Morehead, where he went to finish school down to [unintelligible]. Then he got a job out here for Boyle County. Then he went to Morehead. Then he went to South Carolina. Then he went to New York to the Army, Army school. Then he went to Colorado back down to U of L then he went to West Virginia. I told him he was a gypsy. So that’s where he’s at now, he’s I think he’s been going on two years up down there. But he did good.

CE: How long has he been like, coaching as a profession?

SO: Well it’s been quite a while.

MH: Yeah, since high school.

SO: Shaelyn just finished her Master’s. Shaelyn just did her Master's. She ShaDon’s oldest daughter. So she's going to West Bend, Indiana for a job.

JS: What's his name? The coach we've been talking about, your grandson? What's his name?

SO: ShaDon Brown, his coach is from, his coach, his name Brown too. Used to be at the Boyle County, yeah, used to be up at Boyle County. Yeah, cause ShaDon payed for up here, and that boy played out there. ShaDon Brown. And the other grandson’s a truck driver. So I have Coach Brown, grandson of well, Jamal used to like them farm trucks, but he's working for something else now.

CE: Are all of your grandchildren fully grown. Are they all adults?

SO: Yeah, let’s see, all most adults now. I got a granddaughter in Nashville. You know, all the grandkids, and then I got them great-grands.

JS: We’re right after six o'clock now, so we've been going for almost an hour. I'm wondering if Mr. Hughes, do you have any other questions? Anything you think we haven't talked about that we should probably talk about?

MH: Not, not really. I think, you know, cover, pretty much, appreciate, I've been telling Shirley forever about getting her to get an interview.

SO: Everybody knows Shirley! I was all over this town! Cause I had every street, yes.

JS: Ms. Owlsley, is there anything that, that you would like to, to talk about that we haven't asked you about, that you think is important about your life, or Danville, or growing up, or anything that you would like to, to talk about publicly?

SO: Well no, but if anybody wants to make it, I think you could progress in Danville, I do. Because if you, if you just want to do something with yourself, it’s a progressive place.

JS: Joseph and Claire, do you have any other questions.

CE: Thank you so much.

SO: Alright.

JS: Alright, thank you.